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Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

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Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#321

Post by maestroia »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #177
jedberg wrote: post #161

Protip from an old guy: Always get everything in writing. No verbal promises. Make sure everything you discussed is written in the offer. If you discussed 100% remote, make sure the offer says 100% remote. If it doesn't, ask them to add it before you sign. And then if they go back on it, keep working there, look for a new job, don't go to the office even if they tell you that you have to, and bring up that you have i…

That feel when jedberg is now an old guy. I agree with you, but in my experience that’s also a recipe for misery. If management is determined to get rid of you, they will find a way. And you’ll be stuck on awful do-nothing projects in the meantime. Admittedly it’s much nicer to do that while being remote though. Just saying that it feels better to work at a place where management has your back.

And keep a red Swingline stapler with you...

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#322

Post by civilized »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #159
ShakataGaNai wrote: post #137

Ask the people you're talking to where the teammates are, the expectations of return to office. Ask them in the very first call. Either they'll be offended because they probably have nefarious plans (dodged a huge time waste), or they'll happily explain how their team is spread across 4 timezones and could never return to the office since there isn't one. Sadly "remote" is just a buzzword to a lot of people. But on t…

At my last role, I got all the way to the "signing your hiring paperwork" to find out that vaccines were mandatory for all new hires. Seeing as that's 30% of the workforce or so who isn't, and this being a senior level position, and a year more after they were first available (meaning, anyone who wanted to get a vaccine - probably would have already)... you'd think they'd bring that up day one. I about flipped shit o…

I am pro-vaccine but I agree with you that this should be disclosed upfront.

Seems like downvoters are having a knee-jerk reaction of EVIL ANTIVAXXER and not listening to the actual point made.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#323

Post by b20000 »

teh_klev wrote: post #251
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty hard standard to hold. I've never had a company promise a particular desk to me in writing, but I trust that if they show me their nice office space and verbally tell me that's where I'll be sitting they won't put me on a folding table in the broom closet.

I think you've crossed over into the unnecessarily absurd. When I got my offer and contract to sign which stated remote work I made damn sure it was in the contract along with compensation, holidays, sick leave etc. If any of these differed from the job advert, interview discussions etc then I'd be bouncing it back to the employer to correct. These are not " pretty hard standard[s] to hold " a potential employer to.

you are right. if it’s not in writing, don’t accept it.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#324

Post by mcv »

throwaway787544 wrote: post #176
mystickphoenix wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Focusing on remote-only, remote-first, remote-from-scratch companies is how I ended up at my current, and literally best company I've ever worked for, gig. Obviously the pool of such companies is smaller than in-person and they tend to have more competition for roles, but my unscientific guess is that pool is growing larger. Bonus points for those companies because they didn't have to "figure it out" or change upper…

I am still flabbergasted that more companies have not gotten it through their skulls yet. Even if you keep an office, all-remote is simply a better model. Not only do you have access to a global labor pool (including the best candidates), the communication is better and work is more flexible (which literally everyone appreciates), you can lower overhead or even hire people for less based on location. The only major d…

I find it bizarre that so many (American?) companies make such an issue out of this. I have no idea if my experience is typical for my country (NL), but both companies I've worked for since the start of the pandemic were eager to let everybody work remotely. Both are very big and traditional: a major bank and an international accountancy firm, and one is selling off their HQ office. Both let the teams decide, and generally aim for one day at the office per week, with the rest remote. But that day is pretty optional, and we've never had the entire team present.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#325

Post by sjg007 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #207
iooi wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every background check that companies put you through include any history of litigation against employers, no need for recruiters to talk to each other.

I can understand at least the reasoning behind checking criminal history of potential hirings (even though as an European, I disagree with the concept on a fundamental level and it's illegal in Germany to demand a criminal record check outside of very specific industries). But how on earth do civil lawsuit records in the US end up anywhere where the background-checking industry can get their grubby paws on them?!

They are not in a standard background check. They might show up in a Google search though.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#326

Post by mschuster91 »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #254
mschuster91 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand at least the reasoning behind checking criminal history of potential hirings (even though as an European, I disagree with the concept on a fundamental level and it's illegal in Germany to demand a criminal record check outside of very specific industries). But how on earth do civil lawsuit records in the US end up anywhere where the background-checking industry can get their grubby paws on them?!

The simple answer to "how do civil lawsuit records end up where they can get their hands on them" is that civil lawsuit records are of course public, and available to anyone who wants them. Although I haven't specifically heard of this one before. Are civil suit records not public not in Germany? But hearing that a criminal history check is illegal in Germany outside of specific industries continues to reinforce my b…

> Are civil suit records not public not in Germany?

Usually, the verdict of popular lawsuits is published but with all PII redacted to a reasonable degree, and you can request a redacted copy of a verdict if it hasn't been published [1].

Additionally, 99.9% of all court proceedings can be visited and listened to by anyone, the exception being matters involving minors, national security and especially if psychological examinations of the accused or participants or details of sexual and domestic violence are being discussed, highly private details of someone's life - that is usually done only for the relevant period of a proceeding.

To me, that's a fair balance between the interest of the general public and the rights of the people subjected to the court - especially that to the right to live a normal life once one has served their sentence.

[1] https://www.lto.de/recht/hintergruende/h/bgh-hzivilgerichte-...

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#327

Post by prima-facie »

> When they pointed out they had been hired as remotes they were met with a collective shrug - the job opening didn't say remote, the agreement they signed didn't say remote. The recruiter was wrong but that's not the company's problem.

That's why during the interview process you need to repeat it multiple times to all parties involved - to make sure they are all on board. After the interview/when accepting the offer you need to get it in writing as an appendix to the contract or any other form that's legally acceptable.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#328

Post by jordigh »

jrd259 wrote: post #195
hello_moto wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirmed the others that pointed out ex-Amazonians aren't pleasure to work with/for. Will avoid 10/10. I believe they were molded to survive the Amazon culture, unfortunately.

I found Amazon's culture - in particular the relentless obsession with solving actual customer needs - to be a perfect fit for my own engineering training from day one. I was not "molded" to fit it. As I see it, as an engineer I have expertise my customer can't truly know or measure. They really have to trust me. I earn that trust by taking on their problem as if it were my own. That's how I've worked my entire caree…

This reads like a marketer wrote it. "A perfect fit for my own engineering training". It's vague and feel-goody and adulation for the company.

What parts of Amazon did you not like?

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#329

Post by dvtrn »

jedberg wrote: post #161

Protip from an old guy: Always get everything in writing. No verbal promises. Make sure everything you discussed is written in the offer. If you discussed 100% remote, make sure the offer says 100% remote. If it doesn't, ask them to add it before you sign. And then if they go back on it, keep working there, look for a new job, don't go to the office even if they tell you that you have to, and bring up that you have i…

What are your recommendations for those of us who work in "at-will" states, where it's common to see "Offer letter is not a contract" in the offer emails, contracts are often eschewed except for certain key roles, and where employers have a much easier time changing parameters of your employment? (No I'm not uprooting the family and moving, either)

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#330

Post by slyzmud »

onebot wrote: post #264

I have founded 5x companies now. My last two have been remote only. I don't think I will ever go back unless I made physical hardware again--even then I might question it. I have moved my family from California to Berlin. It is great we can travel Europe and I can work from anywhere. The tooling is great these days. Dealing with several timezones has its own issues but we aim to do quick daily standup over discord (y…

Friendly tip: if timezones are an issue, try hiring in south America. We have the advantage of sharing 4 working hours with Europe and California. Also with similar salaries you will get more qualified candidates. You might be surprised with the amount of rust engineers you will find.
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