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Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

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Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#291
Long-time remote-only recruiter here (and previous developer & startup CEO).

In the worst case, they're lying.

In the best case, there's a communication breakdown.

Some possible communication breakdowns:

1) Identifying decision makers - It sometimes takes a while to find all the decision makers in an organization for an open position. It isn't always just the hiring manager and as a recruiter I'm not always told up front. Sometimes it might be embarrassing for the hiring manager, or maybe they don't even know. Sometimes the decision maker hands off a hiring assignment, but then sees its not what they want and takes back control. Unfortunately, that can sometimes mean a couple candidates getting deep into the hiring pipeline before it's clear. And then once you find the decision maker, that's when requirements can change where "remote ok" becomes "remote not ok".

2) Hiring ahead of the curve - Some clients will start a hiring process in anticipation of a new project coming through and then have to shut it down when it doesn't pan out. So it's possible a new remote team might be designed around a specific project and then the project gets modified or shut down and the remote team is no longer needed, but some candidates are funneled into other open positions that have different requirements.

3) Changing strategy - Some clients, especially startups, pivot in reaction to client or team feedback pretty quickly. If a job gets posted and candidates start moving through the pipeline, but the team keeps rejecting them, then the job req might change based on that feedback, but candidates already partially through the pipeline might feel like it's a bait and switch.

I'm sure there are more possible explanations, but those are a few I've experienced myself even though I'd consider myself a very ethical recruiter.

> I'm not sure what the compensation model for recruiters is

I charge 0 up front, 10% of the base salary on the start date and another 10% of the base salary on the 6mo anniversary if they're still employed.

Every recruiter is different though. Many charge an upfront fee or minimal hourly/weekly rate in addition to a % of the salary (or total comp).

> it seems to encourage bringing in as many candidates as possible over treating them with honesty and respect.

Those recruiters don't last very long. And it's a sign that they don't know what they're doing. At that point they're glorified paper pushers, shuttling resumes from one place to another.

If I don't have someone specific in mind for a role, then I typically review up to 150-300 resumes for a given position and reach out to 50-100 for pre-screening questions. Of those, only about 25-50 might respond. Of those, I might interview 10-20. Of those, I typically recommend the top 2-4 candidates to my client. I don't wait to pick the top 2-4, I just know from running my own company and engineering teams who I would hire and who I wouldn't and recommend candidates as soon as they successfully cross all of my screening steps.

The problem is if you flood a company with candidates, it takes them too long to schedule all those interviews and make a decision. By sending only 2-4, I can get them all through 2-3 rounds of company interviews in 1-2 weeks, and then the company can make a quick decision.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still flabbergasted that more companies have not gotten it through their skulls yet. Even if you keep an office, all-remote is simply a better model. Not only do you have access to a global labor pool (including the best candidates), the communication is better and work is more flexible (which literally everyone appreciates), you can lower overhead or even hire people for less based on location. The only major d…

Here is why: extraverts who need constant hyperactive human interaction are the only people psychopathic enough to ascend into the leadership tiers that make decisions about remote vs. in-person. So they just can't, and I mean CAN'T, handle the idea of all-remote. At all.

Agreed. Except it's the quiet intro-psychos that are the most dangerous.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small note: there are people who cannot change work in IT because it would affect their visa or immigration status.

H1-B transfer is possible if your potential new employer will perform the transfer with USCIS. (Edit: typo corrected, thanks kaapipo)

You can also get denied and get kicked out, it's not a guaranteed process AFAIK IANAL.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#294
If you think that they're dishonest with you, then ... play that dishonest game with them: you can tell them that you accept that onsite job and will be in the office at that time on that day. On the day that you're supposed to be in the office, you tell them that their office is too far and you cannot go there. They'll let you go and will also have to spend all the time and effort to find another person for your position. After a few times like that, they'll realize that it's better to be frank at the beginning.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone's trying to figure out which is which, so here are my takes: Wouldn't work ever - Amazon Wants on-site - applies to Apple, Google, Netflix. My guess is Apple. Team assigned later - Facebook/Meta with its bootcamp process Doesn't fit FAANG - Netflix, it's not uncommon for folks to exclude it due to much smaller size So most likely op interviewed at Google, which seems all the more likely given a months-long i…

Facebook/Meta can for sure assign team before bootcamp. The candidate can still change teams during bootcamp, but there will be a spot ready for them. At least that is how I have seen it. One thing to notice about FAANG and other large companies is that the team assignment is not as important as you think. Reorgs are often large and frequent so suddenly you work on something completely different. How much choice you…

For sure, I was one of those preallocated folks. That said, bootcamp allocation is far and away the most common way people get assigned to teams. Good point in not focusing too much on it, so many people switch teams in their own every 1-2 years on their own.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to go to a remote first company. How do you even find such a thing without just being super lucky? I'm actually onboarding at a remote position right now where the people I work with are clearly used to everything happening in an office. It's Thursday, I started Monday, and I have spent a grand total of maybe 3 hours speaking to my teammates or direct manager. I've been dumped with a ton of documentation…

If there isn’t an IRC, Slack, or other instant messaging system in place, that should be the first step. Without that, I cannot imagine how remote work would actually… work. From there, start being proactive about asking questions or starting conversations. Do not wait for others to reach out. You must initiate. That is a huge part of remote culture. If you are initiating on instant messaging and not generating feedb…

There is a Slack, of course. I've found people quite slow to reply so far.

Expecting a new hire to initiate is pretty unrealistic imo. Even in an office, leaders should be encouraging employees to reach out to the new hire and make that connection. In person new hires would be getting a team lunch of some kind at most companies I've ever worked at, some kind of scheduled time to meet and interact with people.

I don't see why remote should be different really. Onboarding should be a hands on process for the whole team to participate in, remote or not.

So, yes. I am kind of wondering if this is a bigger problem or if once I have stuff to work on things will improve.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, you're an employee. If management doesn't respect you, look elsewhere. You're working in IT, it's not like you can't change work. You'll risk getting less money, but if you're happier who cares?

Small note: there are people who cannot change work in IT because it would affect their visa or immigration status.

Thanks for pointing this out. I'm a U.S. citizen, but I have had friends that were not, and I was horrified to hear the stories of how companies (that I worked for at the time as well) were using that 'leverage'.

I will no longer work for those sorts of companies.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#298
>When they pointed out they had been hired as remotes they were met with a collective shrug - the job opening didn't say remote, the agreement they signed didn't say remote. The recruiter was wrong but that's not the company's problem.

One thing they can do is stay enough so that the company has spent funds training them, while they're not productive yet, and then quit.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#299
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple answer to "how do civil lawsuit records end up where they can get their hands on them" is that civil lawsuit records are of course public, and available to anyone who wants them. Although I haven't specifically heard of this one before. Are civil suit records not public not in Germany? But hearing that a criminal history check is illegal in Germany outside of specific industries continues to reinforce my b…

I would not know how to access such records. Doubt they are publicly available. Germany isn‘t perfect, but if you want to come, the blue card process is pretty straightforward. If you do python backend stuff, talk to me.

Alas, no, ruby. Does the "blue card process" require a job offer? Looks like yes, good to know that if you have that, it can be done. https://www.germany-visa.org/immigration-residence-permit/eu...

I wonder where I'd find software job postings in Germany (or possibly other EU) that are suitable for blue card (looks like salary must be sufficient, possibly other requirements).

It is increasingly apparent to me that the USA is a fully broken society, and a dangerous place to live.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few workers in the U.S. have actual employment contracts. If you work in the tech sector in the U.S. you almost certainly don't. Instead, your employment is "at-will"; i.e. terminable by either party, with or without cause or notice (unless you live and work in Montana). You may have received a written offer of employment when you were hired (outlining your title, salary, hiring bonuses, etc.), but that is not a…

> If you work in the tech sector in the U.S. you almost certainly don't. I've been working in the tech sector in the US for a long time, and have had an employment contract at literally every company. I'm genuinely surprised to hear that people are working without one. That seems unwise.

I've worked for 4 companies in the U.S. and they only sent Employment offers/letters/agreements that I had to sign. Didn't see the word contract in any of them.
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