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Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

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Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#161

Post by jedberg »

Protip from an old guy: Always get everything in writing. No verbal promises. Make sure everything you discussed is written in the offer. If you discussed 100% remote, make sure the offer says 100% remote. If it doesn't, ask them to add it before you sign.

And then if they go back on it, keep working there, look for a new job, don't go to the office even if they tell you that you have to, and bring up that you have it in writing that it's 100% remote.

And if they fire you anyway, you've got a good basis for a wrongful termination suit, while hopefully working at a new job and/or collecting unemployment.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#162

Post by y-c-o-m-b »

Amazon is doing this. I went through the process and the recruiter tried to manipulate me into "assigning a local office" otherwise it has to go through "an approval process". I told him put it through the approval then or I walk. He also tried car-salesman tactics of trying to get me to accept a lower total comp package. I stood firmly at the top of my range and after days of trying to convince me otherwise, they finally caved.

They're also holding back-to-the-office meetings where they want local individuals to come in a few times a week and remote individuals to come in on a somewhat regular frequency (e.g. once a month). I told them to shove it, I'm not coming in, ever. I don't need their money that badly. I'd rather slash my salary in half and work somewhere that's not trying to screw me over at every turn. I think after 3-6 months I'm quitting anyway.

EDIT: I should mention I just started at the company and it's already pissing me off. Thankfully my old cushy job will take me back any time.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#163

Post by kulikalov »

> the job opening didn't say remote, the agreement they signed didn't say remote

The bright side is that's one of the least harmful ways to learn the lesson: read contracts thoroughly before signing them.

Anyways, sorry for your experience. As an alternative to what others suggest, consider career as independent contractor :) Been here around 8 years and never dealt with recruiters so far.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#164

Post by wldcordeiro »

I've seen this around, Meta/FB for example currently are hiring people anywhere and letting them work remotely because of current circumstances but you have to declare that you're open to relocation and pick a "home office" regardless of your preference for remote work.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#165

Post by hammock »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #81

> I'm not sure what the compensation model for recruiters is, but it seems to encourage bringing in as many candidates as possible over treating them with honesty and respect. This is exactly how it works, recruiters don't get paid unless they get a candidate hired. Despite all the words they write and say to you, they only care about getting you and the hiring manager to say yes and _everything_ else doesn't matter…

OP experience makes me think some kind of added process like Letter of Agreement or Letter of Intent from the initial outreach that says “assuming you pass all the rounds, we will hire you to a remote position at a salary to be determined but between the range of x-y, etc.” could be helpful.

It’s not a contract but a precursor and some lighter level of commitment. Common in enterprise sales scenarios but not in mid level job searches.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#166

Post by pc86 »

ravenstine wrote: post #133

Yes, this happened to me with my last position. Overall, they weren't one of the worst third party recruiters I've dealt with (though I shouldn't have dealt with them at all), but they told me in the first few calls that the position was "fully remote". This was only half-true. It turned out that the employer wanted me to come in 1 to 2 times a week. That was during late-pandemic, so who knows whether that would have…

I'm not sure how selling something "fully remote" when you're expected to be in-office 40% of the time is only half-true. That's a complete fabrication. I would even have a hard time considering something fully remote if it required annual meetings or something, unless they were optional and remote-friendly.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#167

Post by michaelt »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #118
krisoft wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a bunch of excellent reasons why such companies should be named. Companies are huge and they can hurt many people at scale. Individuals are small, relatively powerless and easy to manipulate. Especially if they don't organise themselves. Spreading information is the first step of getting organised.

I agree, but it's also a good way to get "blackballed" in today's tech industry. I would not encourage people early-to-mid-career, to do this.

I'm sceptical as to whether you can actually get blackballed, unless your misdeeds achieve a Hans Reiser level of publicity.

I've had recruiters claim that if I use the offer they got me to negotiate a raise from my current employer, they'll make sure I never work in this town again - and yet recruiters keep calling.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#168

Post by 23B1 »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #81

> I'm not sure what the compensation model for recruiters is, but it seems to encourage bringing in as many candidates as possible over treating them with honesty and respect. This is exactly how it works, recruiters don't get paid unless they get a candidate hired. Despite all the words they write and say to you, they only care about getting you and the hiring manager to say yes and _everything_ else doesn't matter…

This depends a lot on their incentive structures - the other side of this coin is that many recruiters are simply full-time employees, who get measured more on their time-to-hire.

Unless we're talking about freelancer/indie recruiters, of course.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#169

Post by NineStarPoint »

aynyc wrote: post #101

I feel for the OP. I have a more general question. Let's say your contract states that you are remote. What if the company changes their mind say 12 months down the road, are there any recourse? As far as I know, there isn't much you can do about it other than perhaps a X-month severance package or go back to the office.

Having it written into the contract would probably make it easier to collect unemployment if you quit before they fired you for non-compliance? I think a major change like that is already a fairly easy case of constructive dismissal though.

Otherwise yeah, there's not going to be much recourse unless specific penalties were also written into the contract.

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