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Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

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Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One FAANG I wouldn't work at under any circumstances. Uh Amazon? I hope it's Amazon, not Facebook. > One FAANG has been very clear that they want employees on site. Both Netflix and Apple. > One FAANG has a recruiting proc where you are hired once you pass the interviews, you can figure out your team later. Google? > One FAANG doesn't really fit in the FAANG acronym. Amazon? Apple? Facebook because they've changed…

> > One FAANG has a recruiting proc where you are hired once you pass the interviews, you can figure out your team later. Google? That's definitely Facebook.

Isn't it true of both? Team match?

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#122
post #101

I feel for the OP. I have a more general question. Let's say your contract states that you are remote. What if the company changes their mind say 12 months down the road, are there any recourse? As far as I know, there isn't much you can do about it other than perhaps a X-month severance package or go back to the office.

I’m fairly sure there is no recourse since this has happened previously at places like Yahoo? They told everyone to be on site, even remote employees who had been that way for years. In fact it appeared to be used like a stealth layoff, so they were banking on people disagreeing.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#123

If you get to the point you get an offer, always make sure to get that in the contract. I was working remotely for a company that went through some re-org and ended up with a different manager who wasn't very excited about having remote team members. Unfortunately for him it was part of my contract so he couldn't force me to relocate.

Very few workers in the U.S. have actual employment contracts. If you work in the tech sector in the U.S. you almost certainly don't. Instead, your employment is "at-will"; i.e. terminable by either party, with or without cause or notice (unless you live and work in Montana). You may have received a written offer of employment when you were hired (outlining your title, salary, hiring bonuses, etc.), but that is not an employment contract. The important distinction for the OP is that a written offer of employment is not legally binding. They can lie or change their minds.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#124

> I'm not sure what the compensation model for recruiters is, but it seems to encourage bringing in as many candidates as possible over treating them with honesty and respect. This is exactly how it works, recruiters don't get paid unless they get a candidate hired. Despite all the words they write and say to you, they only care about getting you and the hiring manager to say yes and _everything_ else doesn't matter…

At the end of the day it's a sales position and just like any sales people they can have a flexible relationship with the truth.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#125

Don’t worry, remote WFH is ending. Soon, this situation will never happen.

I was offered the opportunity to work 100% remotely for a large financial corporation which has the bulk of its operations in my home town. This was back in 2006. One of my best friends was outfitted with a DS1 to his house back in the mid '90's so he could work remotely.

tl;dr: Telecommuting has been around for decades and is only going to become more common, not less. The pandemic merely accelerated the trend.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#126

Short of a contractual guarantee, you should always approach a new job with this expectation. They may say remote now. But almost all of us are subject to 'at will' employment laws and the company could absolutely change its mind later. I've only been looking at remote jobs that also happen to have big offices or headquarters in places I'd be okay moving to, because I might use it as a plausible path to move there. M…

This. I am currently going through talking with HR ( mostly because management did not want to 'create a precedent'; clearly they got orders from higher ups ) hoping to get full time remote, while, at the same time, interviewing for other positions ( which will worst case serve as a leverage - worst case, I will just go to a different office making more money ).

It sucks, but yeah. Unless this is in writing somewhere, it can change at any moment.

If I wasn't so scared of being my own boss ( it is genuinely hard to keep track of everything ), I would consider trying consulting.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#127
post #45

When I went looking for a fully remote position last year, I was worried that exactly this might happen. Then I heard that Shopify had literally shut down and sold their offices. It's not actually possible for the company to go back to the office because they don't exist. So that's where I work now.

Similarly, I focused on companies that were based abroad but hiring in the US. Can't be forced to commute from Seattle to Mexico City.

And if anyone is interested in for real remote work, we're hiring SDE & Sr SDE frontend (React) and backend (Python). See my profile for contact info if interested.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#128
I'm often contacted by recruiters that have no formal connection with the company that is hiring. They simply find wanted ads, go look for people that sort of match the requirements. When they find some, they'll take them to the company.

There are firms that only do this kind of pirate recruiting, and they even do it for roles where the company explicitly says "no recruiters".

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#129
It's hard to know what happened here without knowing the company and the internals - I know for Google, for the hiring committees I'm aware of (I'm a PM hiring committee member), we cant' even easily see where the candidate is based vs. where the role is based, and it's not something we take into account. We don't care, we just want to say whether the candidate passed the bar to work at Google, and from there it's between them and whatever team they're joining.

Now, there are other places where problems can arise. For example most (all?) hires go to a VP-level review, which is mostly a rubber stamp for more junior levels, but I have seen a few cases where a VP steps in with concerns about a candidate, and potentially that's what happened here - the hiring manager didn't have buy-in up the chain for the role location, and it got flagged at some point.

I'll also throw out there that maybe the recruiter was not wholly truthful, from the perspective that perhaps there was some other problem, either concerns around passing the hiring committee or negative internal references, and the recruiter told you that the remote was the issue instead. I haven't seen a recruiter be directly untruthful, but I have seen situations where the recruiter represented things slightly differently in order to try to keep the candidate's morale up.

As an example, I once got asked to do an interview redo for a candidate - this happens from time to time, either because an interview had to get cut short, or the candidate did really poorly and they want to give them another chance, or the interviewer left the company, but they don't tell you the situation when they ask you to re-interview so as not to bias you. When I spoke to the candidate, they said they'd been told something about the interviewer leaving bad notes and transferring orgs, so they had to redo it - I redid the interview, filed my feedback, and later found out that actually the candidate had bombed the previous interview, so much so that the hiring committee felt like it was an outlier and requested a re-interview.

Again, this is just from my narrow window on one company, but I wanted to share some of the dynamics at at least one company in the FAANG space.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#130
post #73

A friend of mine went to an interview after a recruiter called him and said it was hybrid (up to one day at the office every two weeks and rest remote) but at the interview when it was done, they said that he needed to be at the office a minimum of four days a week. I feel like this is sort of common these days.

It is, but it's worth giving companies the benefit of the doubt here. A lot of companies are actively changing their policies. At my day job we're transitioning from full remote to hybrid, and the rules on hybrid are themselves in flux. It'd be real easy for a candidate to get mixed messages if they entered the hiring funnel now. Yes, the company should be up front about the circumstances, but I could see how it would happen.

And yes, other companies are just malicious.

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