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Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#81

Post by Beltalowda »

> Is free software a lost cause? If we believe in things like right to repair, must we also believe in free software?

I definitely think that the "right to repair" your software is a good idea, and access to the source code is required for this. However, this does not mean freedom to copy and distribute the software.

I think the insistence on "True Free Software™" and "True Open Source™" is holding a lot of things back. Merely access to the source code (under any license) for the "right to repair" would already be an enormous leap forward, so let's start with that instead of also insisting on these other, IMHO less important, things.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#82

Post by Beltalowda »

metroholografix wrote: post #63
warp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the world would be a better place if all software was free, and I think that is a worthy goal to be pursuing. In that sense, I believe in free software. I don't think the FSF as an organization is very effective in working toward that goal or promoting that goal. They're pushing away too many people and organizations who could've been their allies.

On the contrary, I think they've been very effective in avoiding being corrupted and destroyed from within (as is the norm). It takes a super strong moral foundation to stand firm against the onslaught of corporate commoditization, and the FSF has managed to do it. I know RMS rubs some folks the wrong way, but he's been not only extremely prescient and decades ahead of his time, but THE main reason that the FSF has e…

On the other hand, X would have been GPL and not MIT if Stallman hadn't been ranting to the X developers at MIT in the 80s and generally leaving a bad impression.

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj02_UeUnGQ&t=1705s

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#83

Post by eternityforest »

I do not see anything immoral about using nonfree. Or at least, it's no more immoral than any other case where a company makes a worse product, and there are many of those.

I do absolutely believe in free software(And even more importantly, open APIs on hardware), I use it when I can, and contribute what I can(In the form of code, bug reports, and answering questions).

Currently I have close to zero paid software, just games and some cheap apps.

But I do have some proprietary freeware that I have no intention of giving up, until a free alternative arrives. I don't see any good replacement for Obsidian notes(I've tried basically all the FOSS apps and even had a go at building my own).

The only reason I have any moral objection is just because free software, obviously, all things being equal, is better.

But trade secrets exist for a reason. I'd much rather live in a world where firefighters have proprietary drones, than no drones at all, or crappy ones.

And I really couldn't care less about binary blobs. I just consider them almost like a part of the hardware, as long as they are freely redistributable for personal or commercial use.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#84

Post by eternityforest »

gandalfff wrote: post #15

I'm not a programmer so I can't practically exercise my user freedoms. If I was a programmer, I also couldn't practically exercise my user freedoms for most of the software I use. Maybe one programmer could maintain a fork of vim, but it takes a small company to maintain a true fork of larger projects like Firefox, Chromium, and LibreOffice. If you want control over your workflow, a program with a stable extensions A…

Not a fork, but I'm building an application on my own that's roughly meant to be equivalent to Home Assistant, on account of some entertainment related projects with very low budgets, and some big complaints about how Home Assistant treats SD cards.

Even though it's not a fork, I have constant problems with trivial changes in libraries between versions. I'd think a fork could be even worse.

I suspect someone with an hour a day, or a few hours a week, could maintain a fork of LibreOffice and keep it in sync with upstream, if they didn't change too much, but it would suck.

The ability for small companies to do forks is where the real benefit is IMHO. I'm using Kiwi Browser on Android, which seems to get security updates within a few days of Chromium, and supports extensions on mobile.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#85

Post by Vox_Leone »

m0llusk wrote: post #5

These questions seem lost in ideology. The free software movement gave me an operating system and critical applications so I can do my work without big company garbage interfering. Unfortunately there is a low ceiling to the utility of copylefted software as my experience in commercial software development shows that any commercially successful development based on copylefted software invites scrutiny such that one m…

>>copylefted software invites scrutiny such that one must constantly prove that every feature of the software can be directly linked to published source code changes. Any failure to do this can result in costly and distracting legal actions.

Well, where I live the burden of such proof is on the accuser. I am not aware of any case as you describe [but I could be wrong].

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#86

Post by smitty1e »

I differentiate between "believe" and "support".

I support free software, have been an FSF member for decades, and that's all swell and spiffy.

But I fall short of believing in free software, because this is and intellectual, not a moral choice. The libertarian, common-sense argument for free software has massive traction.

However, it simply does not follow that an (arguably myopic) choice for two parties to enter into a non-free software licensing agreement is somehow "immoral". It's a business decision, folks. Non-swift decisions are made all the time.

Furthermore, I'd contend that free software helps itself through evangelistic zeal and moralizing arguments not at all. When I'm in the mood for good preachin', I'll head to church.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#87

Post by stackbutterflow »

armchairhacker wrote: post #80

I believe in competition: if there’s a proprietary piece of software, that’s not an issue, because you can just make your own version. e.g. don’t like JetBrains? Make your own IDE. Sure it will take effort and a group collaboration, but it’s honestly not too much to expect a large group to make a reasonably comparable IDE. In fact, there is a reasonably comparable open-source IDE: VS Code. And this is the case for mo…

if there’s a proprietary piece of software, that’s not an issue, because you can just make your own version.\=

It's possible to make your own version only if the smaller building blocks are free. If you had to pay $2000 to compile your program, $100 to edit it, $1000 for the different tools (test suite, framework, etc) to develop it, how many people would be able to afford to develop a competitor?

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#88

Post by JPLeRouzic »

jcusch wrote: post #18
JPLeRouzic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not complaining, I am answering to "Free software as the freedom to ...study, change and improve the software. " This is just not true for most modern open source software.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were complaining. I was just curious where else you feel the value lies in that software, if freedom isn't it?

Maybe be it's just that I have advocated for open source at my company for a long time. I remember playing with and trying to improve smallC [0] in the 1980' when there was no GCC.

Yet, at the same time, TurboC from Borland was an incredible product. I would be happy to have today a similar editor for Java and PHP.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-C

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#89

Post by Bancakes »

lucb1e wrote: post #34
Bancakes wrote: post #16

Earth could benefit from mass SSPL adoption. It's only (computer) science if it's verifiable and reproducible. To this end, free software is the way to go.

Had to google that and scroll past a S. S. Public Library to find what you are even talking about... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Side_Public_License

Crap, I'm sorry.
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