We’ve got a science opportunity overload: Launching the Wolfram Institute • Hacker News Board

Re: We’ve got a science opportunity overload: Launching the Wolfram Institute

#221

Post by sjg007 » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 2:07 PM UTC

tokai wrote: post #212

sjg007 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neural networks were basically negatively critiqued for decades. I think there is something to cellular automata and there's definitely a relationship between CAs and DNNs that is unexplored.

You NN 'example' is no applicable. Scientist haven't been discussing Wolframs ideas for decades, like they have with NNs. They are not engaging with his research. Bcs there is nothing substantial to latch on to and discuss. Just Wolfram making grandiose claims, citing improperly, and doing what he can to only communicate through venues he control without being a part of the scientific communities of the subjects he c…

I am not sure where you have been but NNs were panned from the late 80s until 2012 basically. What I am saying that negative critiques mean very little if anything. CAs have also been around since the 1970s.

Re: We’ve got a science opportunity overload: Launching the Wolfram Institute

#222

Post by jfengel » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 2:08 PM UTC

Traster wrote: post #195

I've read through this very carefully and it's very difficult for me to understand what exactly he thinks is a breakthrough. Generally when we're talking about breakthroughs in physics in theoretical physics we're often talking about a new idea that links previous ideas, or an emergent property from a theory that we can then test. I've read a bit about it, and it seems to boil down to "Model things as a graph and sim…

He seems to believe that trying to base science in terms of cellular automata will turn up something new and interesting. It hasn't yet, but he sees hints that similar patterns crop up at a wide variety of scales when you frame it the way he does.

Few scientists seem to agree with him on that, and it hasn't produced any novel results. To borrow an old joke, "His book contains much that is new and much that is interesting. But that which is new is not interesting, and that which is interesting is not new." Nothing seems to have been forthcoming in the decades since it was published.

On the other hand, he produced at least one very important thing in the past, and presumably has gobs of money. So he's welcome to pursue his idea. Most scientists don't think it will pan out, but it's his time and his money to waste. He's trying to recruit people, and I would caution that it's probably a waste of time -- as would people far more qualified than me. Still... it's also their time to spend/waste.

Re: We’ve got a science opportunity overload: Launching the Wolfram Institute

#223

Post by tomrod » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 2:08 PM UTC

DantesKite wrote: post #73

Man these are some low-quality comments. You’d think Wolfram was torturing gerbils or something. I don’t mind criticisms of my favorite thinkers. I enjoy watching someone being taken to task in the battle of ideas so to speak, but apparently something about Wolfram just rubs people the wrong way, because they seem to lose the ability to make cogent arguments after reading him. As a simple example of what a healthy di…

Holy moly, thank you thank you thank you for putting into words how I've been feeling about these perennial negging on Wolfram.

Dude and company has done some amazing things.

Re: We’ve got a science opportunity overload: Launching the Wolfram Institute

#224

Post by crispyambulance » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

underdeserver wrote: post #148

DantesKite wrote: post #73

Man these are some low-quality comments. You’d think Wolfram was torturing gerbils or something. I don’t mind criticisms of my favorite thinkers. I enjoy watching someone being taken to task in the battle of ideas so to speak, but apparently something about Wolfram just rubs people the wrong way, because they seem to lose the ability to make cogent arguments after reading him. As a simple example of what a healthy di…

My problem with Wolfram is that every time I hear him talk or read him, I end up spending 15-20 minutes and come out the other end confused. I studied physics in my undergrad, I have a graduate degree in math, I've shipped large features on planet-scale systems. I'm no genius, certainly nowhere close to Dr. Wolfram, but I don't think I'm far from your average HN reader in reading comprehension ability. I've read 35 p…

Wolfram deserves accolades for Mathematica. It's a magnificent achievement and he's kept his company alive and thriving and people use Wolfram (the company) tools everyday to do productive stuff.

BUT... Wolfram (the man) is very much an outsider when it comes to physics. This started 20 years ago when he published a "A New Kind of Science". It was a lengthy but ultimately not useful exploration of cellular automata (some of the fractal-like graphics were pretty cool at the time, but that's about it). Even that was perfectly fine, a rich guy with a vanity hobby doing some weird but interesting stuff, so what?

But lately he's really doubled down on the "theory of everything" stuff with his "hypergraph" idea. To be honest, it IS a bit cringe-worthy. To call this pursuit "The Fundamental Theory of Physics"... geezus, that takes a level of ego that makes one's mouth drop.

But you know what, it's still fine. It's not like he is applying for grants and competing with other worthwhile science for funding. His "staff" for this endeavor are his paid employees. AFAIK, he has no collaborators in academia (and no, multi-hour Twitch streams where he firehoses PHD level math jargon to the general public DON'T COUNT as collaboration).

Now he wants to launch an institute? Still fine by me as long as the funding it comes out of Wolfram's pocket and doesn't detract from more worthwhile non-vanity research.

Re: We’ve got a science opportunity overload: Launching the Wolfram Institute

#225

Post by emteycz » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 2:12 PM UTC

pasadenasunset wrote: post #66

anyfactor wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like it was written by a business school undergrad student who regrets not choosing a STEM major and is a subscriber to Lex Fridman, 2 minute paper, veritesium....and now they want to "disrupt" the world with AI research.

The tossout of “open science” and “open tools” without any explanation is a red flag. Translation: “we’re looking for people who might be convinced to work for free if we promise to give some shit away”. Open science is tantamount to Facebook w/data theft for anyone involved at a sub-professional level of name recognition.

I think you're assuming too much. They don't go deep into it because they're used to it - they do tons of live coding/science livestreams, for example. And they pay money and the wage is not bad.

Re: We’ve got a science opportunity overload: Launching the Wolfram Institute

#226

Post by tom-thistime » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 2:15 PM UTC

"Why shouldn't Dr. X claim that he has originated a completely new theory of physics?"

Because nobody has seen any prediction of any physical phenomenon based on this work.

"Why are you so filled with hatred toward Dr. X?"

Wait, what? I thought you wanted to talk about physics.

Re: We’ve got a science opportunity overload: Launching the Wolfram Institute

#227

Post by pmayrgundter » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 2:16 PM UTC

DantesKite wrote: post #73

Man these are some low-quality comments. You’d think Wolfram was torturing gerbils or something. I don’t mind criticisms of my favorite thinkers. I enjoy watching someone being taken to task in the battle of ideas so to speak, but apparently something about Wolfram just rubs people the wrong way, because they seem to lose the ability to make cogent arguments after reading him. As a simple example of what a healthy di…

Haters gonna hate.

I rolled my eyes when I saw this link posted with hundreds of comments, ofc not because of Wolfram but because it's been this reaction for 20 years. People demand mediocrity and are furious when they don't get it.* Projection is a real thing.

What's cool about Wolfram is his priority is his work, not peoples' opinions of his work. I know he cares, and sometimes maybe it affects his stance, but he's not letting it stop him from exploring. He's a hero.

*Mediocrity in the outgroup. When ingroup it carries prestige for you by association

Re: We’ve got a science opportunity overload: Launching the Wolfram Institute

#228

Post by SantalBlush » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 2:16 PM UTC

ace2358 wrote: post #90

pwdisswordfish9 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The joke is that the discoveries attributed to “Stephen Wolfram” are actually the work of multiple people, none of whom are actually named that.

I mean, I studied maths and physics at uni. My recollection is that science is littered with things named after specific people when in actual fact multiple people put in hours and hours of work to making these discoveries. But only one name gets slapped on it. ‘Maxwell’s’ equations are a great example. Calculus is also a prime example (d/dx f(x) vs f’(x)). I’m pretty sure Gauss was a fantastic mathematician, but too…

The saying goes that a mathematical theorem is named after the first person to discover it after Gauss.

Re: We’ve got a science opportunity overload: Launching the Wolfram Institute

#229

Post by ChadNauseam » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 2:16 PM UTC

Tr3nton wrote: post #204

I've been hearing/seeing Stephen Wolfram's name for about 2 decades. Each time I see it, it's associated with some supposed incredible breakthrough in math, science, physics, or perhaps a combination of those; and that's it. There's never any application to the real world, there's never any great discovery that enlightens or improves the common man's life. You could argue I'm not smart enough to understand his work,…

Well, the majority of academic work in physics is not at all enlightening to the "common man". And yet Wolfram's career has benefited and enlightened the common man 100x more than the average academic through Wolfram Alpha and Mathematica alone.

Re: We’ve got a science opportunity overload: Launching the Wolfram Institute

#230

Post by eternityforest » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 2:24 PM UTC

DantesKite wrote: post #73

Man these are some low-quality comments. You’d think Wolfram was torturing gerbils or something. I don’t mind criticisms of my favorite thinkers. I enjoy watching someone being taken to task in the battle of ideas so to speak, but apparently something about Wolfram just rubs people the wrong way, because they seem to lose the ability to make cogent arguments after reading him. As a simple example of what a healthy di…

The problem is nobody understands even very basic physics. The public has to rely entirely on personality and comments from people who seem to be respected, but the actual physics itself is a complete black box.

We can't read his work, we are years of study away from that point.

All people are going to do is shut up(My preferred option), immediately dismiss it because some other physicist did, or heap praise on it because it's "Far out and groovy and must be good if those dirty no good mainstream people hate it".

And people often aren't that good at shutting their mouths....