Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#431

Post by julian_sark » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 7:38 AM UTC

mike_d wrote: post #280

mfreydavis wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GoGuardian is normally full device, but on Chromebooks it is installed via extensions. Extensions in on Chromebooks are 'user' policies so they are applied to entire OUs of users. (docs here for anyone who is interested : https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6177431?hl=en#zip... ) These types of solutions are really common for schools because under CIPA you must filter your network to receive e-rate fun…

^ This guy is correct. OP is vastly overstating the situation or uninformed. Unless it was school provided hardware, management is done at the account level and accounts are fully isolated. Powerwash ( https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/183084?hl=en ) the device, login with a personal account to make it the primary, and then login with your kids school account. Yes they will be monitored when logged in to t…

The article you recommend for resetting a device itself says:

"If you're using your Chromebook at work or school, you can't reset it."

So it likely does not apply here.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#432

Post by d1sxeyes » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 12:21 PM UTC

nybble41 wrote: post #425

d1sxeyes wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree that this is an infringement of their privacy - or more accurately I think this is a reflection of the fact that there's no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public space (physical or virtual). It is perfectly normal in working circles that your activities on company owned devices or devices connected to a company network are monitored. If the school required everyone to purchase a private d…

> there's no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public space This is not a public space, it's a privately-owned Chromebook. It is not reasonable that merely accessing the school's (mandatory) web services from a privately owned device will result in monitoring software being installed on that device without so much as seeking consent from the device's owner (which is the parent here, not the student who is loggin…

> This is not a public space, it's a privately-owned Chromebook.

Well, privately owned things can exist in a public space too, with restrictions.

For example, if I want to drive my privately owned car on a public road, I need to take steps (registering, attaching registration plates) to allow my car to be tracked and its usage monitored.

I agree on the point that this is a decision made by Google, although I would say that if you attach a Windows device to a domain, settings can be set through group policies without the user's explicit consent.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#433

Post by IYasha » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 1:19 PM UTC

Holy shivers... That is something of a 1984-esque level! I can't give any recommendations, but, at least, I thank you for reminding us to NOT to buy things we won't (be able to) own!

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#434

Post by nybble41 » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 3:22 PM UTC

d1sxeyes wrote: post #432

nybble41 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public space This is not a public space, it's a privately-owned Chromebook. It is not reasonable that merely accessing the school's (mandatory) web services from a privately owned device will result in monitoring software being installed on that device without so much as seeking consent from the device's owner (which is the parent here, not the student who is loggin…

> This is not a public space, it's a privately-owned Chromebook. Well, privately owned things can exist in a public space too, with restrictions. For example, if I want to drive my privately owned car on a public road, I need to take steps (registering, attaching registration plates) to allow my car to be tracked and its usage monitored. I agree on the point that this is a decision made by Google, although I would sa…

> … to drive my privately owned car on a public road, I need to take steps … to allow my car to be tracked and its usage monitored.

Yes, for very restricted interpretations of "tracked" and "monitored" which are basically limited to mounting a unique license plate on the vehicle which can be passively scanned and used to look up the owner of the vehicle (not the driver). Without a warrant they aren't allowed to attach a GPS tracker for continuous real-time location or install a camera inside the car. The inside of the vehicle is still considered a private space which cannot be searched without probable cause. Moreover, the justification for the license plate and registration requirements is that the vehicle is physically within their territory, on public roads, which doesn't apply to the Chromebook situation.

> … if you attach a Windows device to a domain, settings can be set through group policies without the user's explicit consent.

This is not like attaching a Windows device to a domain. For one thing that requires local administrative privileges on the Windows device, whereas anyone can log into a CPS account on any Chromebook whether they own it or not. Here the student doesn't own the Chromebook, the parent does—if this were a Windows PC the student would not be the device's local administrator and would not have the ability to join it to a domain.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#435

Post by awinter-py » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 6:08 PM UTC

Ancapistani wrote: post #69

awinter-py wrote: post #20

related support ticket from someone trying to log into device w/ work account without inheriting workplace MDM policy https://support.google.com/chromebook/thread/117916330/how-t... > Even if the Chromebook is your private device and your owner account is your private @gmail.com account, once you sign in with a managed account, even using a separate profile, the managed account polices become active. > This is NOT a…

Hmm. I’m not super familiar with ChromeOS’s MDM stuff… but I wonder what would happen if someone were to log in to two separate managed accounts, for two separate organizations, with conflicting requirements?

don't cross the streams

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#436

Post by d1sxeyes » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 7:33 PM UTC

nybble41 wrote: post #434

d1sxeyes wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not a public space, it's a privately-owned Chromebook. Well, privately owned things can exist in a public space too, with restrictions. For example, if I want to drive my privately owned car on a public road, I need to take steps (registering, attaching registration plates) to allow my car to be tracked and its usage monitored. I agree on the point that this is a decision made by Google, although I would sa…

> … to drive my privately owned car on a public road, I need to take steps … to allow my car to be tracked and its usage monitored. Yes, for very restricted interpretations of "tracked" and "monitored" which are basically limited to mounting a unique license plate on the vehicle which can be passively scanned and used to look up the owner of the vehicle (not the driver ). Without a warrant they aren't allowed to atta…

I don't own a Chromebook, but my understanding is that the monitoring would only run for the user with the CPS account, rather than for all users, is that wrong?

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#437

Post by Sporktacular » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 11:52 PM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #368

Sporktacular wrote: post #365

This post is showing up in grey text for me. Does that mean it's being downvoted? I can't imagine why.

Nah, all Ask HNs do. It was written that way by pg to discourage people from using HN as a blog.

Ah, so good to know this stuff. I don't know where it's explained for newcomers. Thanks a lot.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#438

Post by mathattack » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 6:37 PM UTC

spacemanmatt wrote: post #348

treeman79 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School choice would do a lot of get schools to compete and be the best possible. Charter schools is something we use now. Hardly perfect but it’s a lot nicer.

Charter schools leave a lot of kids behind, especially if they have special needs.

Depends on the charter school. In New York the Special Ed kids at Success Academy outperform Gen Ed kids citywide.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#439

Post by bluSCALE4 » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:54 PM UTC

mike_d wrote: post #428

bluSCALE4 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you're getting at but there's really nothing Chrome OS offers that can't be replicated on x86 and M1 machines. If he really wants to use it, I'll just VM Chrome OS, get him a touch screen monitor and call it a day. Chrome OS and iOS for that matter are garbage through and through by design, not by nature and I'll never stop preaching that... basically, if I took your stance, I'd be putting my son at a huge…

This is like people who think they are vegan so their pets should be too. At no point in the future is your kid going to say "wow dad thanks for teaching me how to stand up to the corporate overlords and opening my eyes to what shit iOS is!" Instead the conversation is going to be "Dad can you loan me money for rent this month? I replaced the proprietary freedom hating operating system on the cash register with an op…

You keep thinking that. At the end of the day, if you understand an OS, you can figure out mobile OS in a weekend. Try to setup a web server and write a React application using CI/CD pipeline. While it can be done, it takes hours on mobile and minutes in a Desktop OS. If anything, the tablet will be cannibalized by the Desktop OS as we're already seeing so arguing that I'm doing harm is a moot point.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#440

Post by nybble41 » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 9:58 PM UTC

d1sxeyes wrote: post #436

nybble41 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> … to drive my privately owned car on a public road, I need to take steps … to allow my car to be tracked and its usage monitored. Yes, for very restricted interpretations of "tracked" and "monitored" which are basically limited to mounting a unique license plate on the vehicle which can be passively scanned and used to look up the owner of the vehicle (not the driver ). Without a warrant they aren't allowed to atta…

I don't own a Chromebook, but my understanding is that the monitoring would only run for the user with the CPS account, rather than for all users, is that wrong?

Apparently, according to another response from a Google employee, it depends on who logs in first. If you log in with the CPS account and then switch to another non-CPS account, the CPS policies are applied to both.