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Design of This Website (2021)

gwern.net

191–200 of 261 posts

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#191

I love this site. The content, minimalism and focus on performance, the honest over-engineering, everything. But I can't read much of it as is. • My reason is not the font, which I like, but the 'density' (not information density). The line height is too less for me. • There are a lot of hyperlinks and they look like the factorial notation instead of an underline and are of the same color as normal text. • Sidenotes…

> • Sidenotes are a good thing but they should be shown on demand, not everytime (maybe there's a setting I missed which does this).

I browse the site only occasionally and I think I had to be told that sidenotes were something that showed up if you make your browser window wide enough.

Most sites don't gain anything if you make your browser window wider than 720 points (half the width of a 2560×1440-point screen). For the sidenotes to show up, I need to widen the width of a browser window to something like 3/4 of the width of my screen, which I almost never do unless I've got multiple columns of code in an editor.

Then again, I'm on macOS, and in general, maximizing windows isn't something that's done very often. Back on Windows, I still have alt, space, x memorized for maximizing windows (although Win+up is much easier, and has been around since Windows 7).

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#192
post #75

Love the comments. Blows my mind how diverse the reactions are. I read most HN on a 9 year old iPad. It's savage, raw compute would be fast enough, but limited RAM and pinned to a very old version of Mobile Safari. I generally keep JavaScript disabled, otherwise hangs are all too common. If I can't at least read the basic idea of a web article at these settings, I move on. Perhaps it's arrogant of me, but I'm exasper…

There are many great suggestions in the comments, which are good advice if I were trying to solve the problem of the limits imposed by my antique tablet.

But that's not quite my point.

The comments helped my realize that I actually had a point I was trying to make. And I believe it's a point worth making, if not exactly a point worth reading... Well, anyway the point is:

_Always write to someone._

    1. Be the person who is listening
    2. and then begin to write
    3. Read what you just created, as the person who is listening
_Close the loop._

I've been creating web things since 1995, and it always astonishes me, how rarely anyone tests thier end product. Individuals, small business, contracts, major international brand campaigns -- at every level. It's not 100%, and the tech term of art "eat your own dog food" comes from this, so there's the ability to imagine otherwise, but all too often, we just toss it over the wall and hope it lands somewhere.

Two examples that will stick with me forever:

It's 1998, and we're doing a major corporate brand website. The target demographic is low to mid income pet owners, rural and urban alike. It's literally dog food. The design is done in a gorgeous glass high rise office tower, using $10,000 Macintosh computers with 20-inch displays. The target demographic uses Windows 3.1 or Windows 95, at best 640 x 480 VGA 256 colors, often 32-color palette. There is a testing lab closet with some old beater PCs running Mosaic and AOL, but no one goes in there, Windows is scary those machines are junk! I go in there. I try it. The site is a hypnagogic vomit of color on the limited palette display.

It's 1997, and we're building a technology to create web sites that can be downloaded over a slow dialup overnight, then browsed offline. Look up Marimba Castanet. This isn't that product, but that's the idea... The team works for months on this. In an office. In Silicon Valley. With 100 Mb/s network connections. I'm the only person on my team to go home, dial up at 9600 baud, and give it a shot.

We write for many reasons. How do we switch from writing to organize our thoughts, to writing as compassionate communication? Because they are two different things, and I've been all too often doing the one when I think I'm doing the other.

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#193
post #75

Love the comments. Blows my mind how diverse the reactions are. I read most HN on a 9 year old iPad. It's savage, raw compute would be fast enough, but limited RAM and pinned to a very old version of Mobile Safari. I generally keep JavaScript disabled, otherwise hangs are all too common. If I can't at least read the basic idea of a web article at these settings, I move on. Perhaps it's arrogant of me, but I'm exasper…

There are many great suggestions in the comments, which are good advice if I were trying to solve the problem of the limits imposed by my antique tablet. But that's not quite my point. The comments helped my realize that I actually had a point I was trying to make. And I believe it's a point worth making, if not exactly a point worth reading... Well, anyway the point is: _Always write to someone ._ 1. Be the person w…

Yes. Please dogfood. I got a free handset on Boost Mobile for $15/month I can use to dog food my web designs. It suffers the same problem as your iPad - 90% of the modern web is death to this poor old Samsung. 300MB home pages are now common. I bought a decent tablet with a crack in the screen for $20 on eBay. It's perfect for testing. There is literally no excuse not to test your designs. There are so many more tools available in 2022, and the web standards have become so much kinder towards writing lighter pages (e.g. things that were Javascript now moving into HTML and CSS).

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#194
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing Gwern's to your website is really interesting. I'd argue, Gwern's website is a good example of minimalist design, whereas the website you posted is the opposite. To me, minimalist design is as little design as possible (Dieter Rams). All design elements need to serve and enhance usability/functionality of the product. That doesn't mean that the total functionality of something needs to be minimal. E.g. you…

> I see design elements that don't serve the usability of the website Every single thing you listed has a purpose. > the background image is a blurry gradient of colors magenta and orange, angled off-axis. In other words, the complete opposite of the page contents: Sharp black and white precisely-aligned text. The purpose of a background is to contrast the foreground. Mission accomplished. > the colour of the toolbar…

Huh. I never considered text alignment like that. Mind => Blown.

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see design elements that don't serve the usability of the website Every single thing you listed has a purpose. > the background image is a blurry gradient of colors magenta and orange, angled off-axis. In other words, the complete opposite of the page contents: Sharp black and white precisely-aligned text. The purpose of a background is to contrast the foreground. Mission accomplished. > the colour of the toolbar…

> your eyes have an easier time picking the correct next line. Are you saying that right-aligned text is easier to read? Are there any studies on that? If that's the case then why isn't everybody like HN for instance already right-aligning their content?

Right alignment is just less common in general, right? It requires knowing how long a line of text is before rendering the line of text, and the more complicated implementation makes it probably the least used form of justification for blocks of text. (Of course computers make right justifying free)

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#196

For a site that lists its #1 principle as minimalism, it sure has a lot going on at all times. Multiple menus all over the screen, many different kinds of links with distinct underline and icon suffix, popups within popups that reinvent OS window functionality, historiated initials, graphical horizontal divider with hidden links, a recommended articles carousel, and a very (visually) busy comments section. Minimal it…

https://ayazhafiz.com/cc

My personal blog! Let me know if you like any of the stuff on it. And what I'm wrong about :)

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#197
post #75

Love the comments. Blows my mind how diverse the reactions are. I read most HN on a 9 year old iPad. It's savage, raw compute would be fast enough, but limited RAM and pinned to a very old version of Mobile Safari. I generally keep JavaScript disabled, otherwise hangs are all too common. If I can't at least read the basic idea of a web article at these settings, I move on. Perhaps it's arrogant of me, but I'm exasper…

> `gwern.net` does not suffer from absolute madness, but the use of custom font means that the site is a blank page for thousands of milliseconds, and this old iPad has trouble scrolling the page of text even after the font is rendered.

I use the standard `display: swap;` settings on fonts, so you shouldn't be seeing blank pages at all, your Safari browser should be showing the text immediately (and then, possibly, re-rendering once the SSfP font subset downloads). When I check https://caniuse.com/css-font-rendering-controls for Safari support, I see that Safari browsers got swap like 5 years ago. (Relatively quick, as Safari things go...) So I think that explains your problem. You are just using such an ancient browser (all Safari versions that old collectively constitute like 0.3% market share now) that it lacks basic performance optimizations that web devs need to take for granted. I held up my half of the bargain and used the relevant optimizations. Perhaps it's time you upgrade?

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#198

I like the design, but semantics and accessibility aren't great. We have lists implemented like divs, navs like divs, lack of appropriate attributes, aria labels and few other things. That's not great considering there's basically only static content without interaction. Articles speaks about optimizing for performance but will still attempt to load 150kb of analytics library and doesn't handle fallback fonts and fon…

> We have lists implemented like divs, navs like divs, lack of appropriate attributes, aria labels and few other things...Articles speaks about optimizing for performance but will still attempt to load 150kb of analytics library and doesn't handle fallback fonts and font rendering properly.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'lists implemented like divs'. My lists are good old /, as God intended. The fallback fonts and font rendering are also implemented correctly AFAIK: we use a high-quality Adobe FLOSS font, we swap fonts for performance, and we have a full fontstack which falls back through all of it down through system to a last-resort. The analytics is also super-useful for me. I use it all the time for finding broken links, discussions, making design choices about device screen size, etc. I do not regard it as wasted at all. A lot of the WAVE stuff you refer to is things I neither can nor would fix, so gwern.net is never going to be the pinnacle of what you consider accessibility. While none of it is quite as stupid as when accessibility people were telling me to not use hyphens because screenreaders, 20+ years later, still are unable to delete soft hyphens (and this is somehow my fault and I should break hyphenation for 99% of readers), I raise my eyebrow at the claim that justified text is an accessibility problem; and when it flags PDFs, I can only shrug - yes, and I would like a pony too, but that ain't happening either.

I've switched the two navbar divs to s, and added a skip-to-content link. I also ran it through WAVE and fixed a few things. (I did a long time ago but there's been a lot of changes since then. I've added a cron job to check it again every few months.)

> The dialog popups also lack the same usability, they would benefit of clearer aria-labels on the links.

Which aria-labels? There's a ton of them.

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#199

For a site that lists its #1 principle as minimalism, it sure has a lot going on at all times. Multiple menus all over the screen, many different kinds of links with distinct underline and icon suffix, popups within popups that reinvent OS window functionality, historiated initials, graphical horizontal divider with hidden links, a recommended articles carousel, and a very (visually) busy comments section. Minimal it…

> historiated initials

Note: these are not 'historiated' because they contain no history, identifiable figures, or scenes. They are just initials/dropcaps.

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#200
post #2

It’s a truly distinct and amazingly designed website that I’m often not smart enough to understand. It’s a unique property on the Net, and that’s saying a lot these days. One thing I would like to understand more is the archive system (used to reduce the problem of dead links). Is there some kind of automated process to create local copies of the linked webpages, or is it done by hand using some thing like wget or cu…

There is some info about archiving here: https://www.gwern.net/Archiving-URLs Lots of jobs and scripts, plus usage of archive.org as well. It's an interesting read.

That page is a bit outdated because I am still finetuning the on-site archive system before I do a writeup.

I still use archiver-bot etc, they're just not how I do the on-site archives. See https://github.com/gwern/gwern.net/blob/master/build/LinkArc... https://github.com/gwern/gwern.net/blob/master/build/linkArc... for that.

The quick summary is that PDFs are automatically downloaded, hosted locally, and links rewritten to the local PDF; other URLs, after a delay, call the CLI version of https://github.com/gildas-lormeau/SingleFile to run headless Chrome to dump a snapshot, which are manually reviewed by myself & improved as necessary, and then links get rewritten to the snapshot HTML. They get some no-crawl HTTP headers and robots.txt exclusions to try to reduce copyright trouble.

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