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Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#41

Post by orblivion »

I don't believe in it as moral imperative. It conflicts with my libertarian moral imperatives (right to create a contract that stipulates what people can do with what they otherwise own). However I do otherwise believe in it as a value, in the same sense that owning a house rather than renting is a value. You're more self-sufficient, and there's more dignity in not having people be able to pull strings on you. Free Software means fully owning your devices without strings attached by others. Again strings attached isn't immoral but it has downsides.

The community aspect is pretty cool too.

So, I use some proprietary software, but I keep it in a safe box (separate device or VM), and treat it the same way I treat external services, more or less. (I wonder if Stallman could be convinced of this). By default I try to make everything FOSS.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#42

Post by muxator »

m0llusk wrote: post #5

These questions seem lost in ideology. The free software movement gave me an operating system and critical applications so I can do my work without big company garbage interfering. Unfortunately there is a low ceiling to the utility of copylefted software as my experience in commercial software development shows that any commercially successful development based on copylefted software invites scrutiny such that one m…

I speak only for myself, but to me these two sentences clash with one another:

> The free software movement gave me an operating system and critical applications so I can do my work without big company garbage interfering.

[...]

> Because this is onerous software developers who seriously wish for success and profit minimize exposure to copylefted source code.

I couldn't say them without feeling I'm internally adopting a double moral standard in order to justify my goals.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#43

Post by smoldesu »

xolve wrote: post #26

These freedoms definitely make sense to me. If they were not present we would be living in a very different world where large corporations would keep us in walled gardens and no possible alternative. We would have software available for study but never to tinker with and make something useful. Its incredulous that I can use a Linux distributions, compilers, multimedia tools and various application for my day to day u…

The PS4 makes a surprisingly decent PC all things considered: https://youtu.be/CmneiL9O5RY

I wish companies weren't so hostile towards this sort of thing. I'd certainly buy a PS4 if I could confidently use it as a media server without worrying that Sony could shut it all down overnight.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#46

Post by orblivion »

orblivion wrote: post #41

I don't believe in it as moral imperative. It conflicts with my libertarian moral imperatives (right to create a contract that stipulates what people can do with what they otherwise own). However I do otherwise believe in it as a value, in the same sense that owning a house rather than renting is a value. You're more self-sufficient, and there's more dignity in not having people be able to pull strings on you. Free S…

Actually I'll extrapolate a little: The strings attached can turn into something similar to political control, or sometimes actual political control. This is admittedly a leftist (or modern right-populist) sentiment, but it's evolved from my basic libertarian notions. Large companies can have their arms twisted by the government, or they can have their own ideological missions. Free Software, maybe self-hosted services in particular, give us an escape hatch at least.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#47

Post by car_analogy »

gandalfff wrote: post #15

I'm not a programmer so I can't practically exercise my user freedoms. If I was a programmer, I also couldn't practically exercise my user freedoms for most of the software I use. Maybe one programmer could maintain a fork of vim, but it takes a small company to maintain a true fork of larger projects like Firefox, Chromium, and LibreOffice. If you want control over your workflow, a program with a stable extensions A…

> If you want control over your workflow, a program with a stable extensions API will go a lot farther than a free software license.

You underestimate the effect of other programmers having that freedom. Even without being a kernel hacker myself, I get the benefit of an OS that does not spy on me.

That's why the freedom to redistribute modified copies is so key - the resulting ecosystem of free software is in many ways more important than the individual rights from which it results. So it's a mistake to think you don't benefit from the software freedoms, just because you individually don't exercise them.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#48

Post by warp »

gorjusborg wrote: post #33
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #14

I believe in free software but I do not like GNU and FSF zealotry. See: https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html "Debian also maintains a repository of nonfree software. According to the project, this software is 'not part of the Debian system,' but the repository is hosted on many of the project's main servers, and people can readily find these nonfree packages by browsing Debian's online package database and…

> I believe in free software but I do not like GNU and FSF zealotry I don't believe you believe in free software. > Free software (or libre software)[1][2] is computer software distributed under terms that allow users to run the software for any purpose as well as to study, change, and distribute it and any adapted versions. If you believe in that, how can you consider what the FSF stands for 'zealotry'? They are sim…

I believe the world would be a better place if all software was free, and I think that is a worthy goal to be pursuing. In that sense, I believe in free software.

I don't think the FSF as an organization is very effective in working toward that goal or promoting that goal. They're pushing away too many people and organizations who could've been their allies.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#49

Post by deepnet »

Yes the four freedoms matter. Software controls our lives and its effects often trump nations and laws. If we do not have the four freedoms then software is will tend towards despotism.

This is widely understood by the general public if one uses the word 'algorithms' instead of software.

Everybody knows algorithms run more and more of our lives and they are proprietary and secret.

Many folk know algorithms amplify are used justify discrimination and unfairness ( 'The computer says no' ).

The public understands the need for the four freedoms when applied to algorithms, at least the freedom to see the alogorithm, to understand why it came to it's decision.

The public understands that democracy can be undermined by algorithms, opinions affected, conspiracies run riot and riots started by algorithms promoting content. Perhaps sometimes intentionally by its authors or just gamed by powerful and state level propagandists.

Software will run more and more of our lives, like Moore's law it will grow exponentially and currently largely unchecked.

The four freedoms need to be applied more widely to algorithms in general if we are not to lose our cherished freedoms and democracy.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#50

Post by zvr »

Of course all these questions do not have a right or wrong answer and are highly dependent on one's values and ideology.

As for me: yes, I believe in Free Software, I do not consider it a lost cause, and I'm in awe that Stallman had the foresight to raise the issues when he did.

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