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Dart language

dartlang.org

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Re: Dart language

#211

Post by thirsteh »

cromwellian wrote: post #87
masklinn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This looks like Java for Javascript, if that makes any kind of sense. It completely does. And I love that it manages to be completely incoherent with Go, the other "Google Language". That's so symptomatic of what google does on that front.

Go is a systems programming language, not a web programming language. It's like saying Javascript is incoherent with C.

One of the design goals: "Ensure that Dart delivers high performance on all modern web browsers and environments ranging from small handheld devices to server-side execution."

Server-side execution...

Re: Dart language

#212

Post by rdtsc »

arctangent wrote: post #174
nzonbi wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with parent comment. My opinion, so far: Overall: uninspired. Below what I was expecting. Probably good for Google goals (tooling, migrating developers, etc) The language is somewhat interesting, but unfortunately saddened by an incredibly boring syntax. At this point, I am thinking that they would have been better off just going with the Go language for this. Looks like something good to migrate fleets of java…

I agree with you about the syntax - I was hoping for something more like Python. Perhaps this is by design, though? Presumably the syntax doesn't look too bad to people who spend all day writing JavaScript (i.e. the target demographic for this language). Presumably some bright spark will eventually write a Python-to-Dart compiler and then we'll all be happy :-)

> I was hoping for something more like Python.

Me too! We already have a very readable, simple and elegant language, let's use that. Anyone know why that wouldn't have worked? (Not using the current CPython implementation but maybe the same syntax but with a different (web-only) set of libraries, that is...)

Re: Dart language

#213

Post by haasted »

nzonbi wrote: post #156
zohebv wrote: post #65

From whatever little I see, I am already hating it :-) This looks like Java for Javascript, if that makes any kind of sense. We are in the year 2011, PL design has progressed so much since 1990 that such an anachronism is unpardonable. I sincerely wish that companies like Google focus on hiring the right kind of person for designing programming languages. What is frustrating is that there are so many people who can d…

Agree with parent comment. My opinion, so far: Overall: uninspired. Below what I was expecting. Probably good for Google goals (tooling, migrating developers, etc) The language is somewhat interesting, but unfortunately saddened by an incredibly boring syntax. At this point, I am thinking that they would have been better off just going with the Go language for this. Looks like something good to migrate fleets of java…

  In Dart, you can often create objects directly from an interface, 
  instead of having to find a class that implements that interface
What?? Why to blur the concepts of classes with interfaces and introduce a quirk? Beauty comes from simplicity and symmetry

Sounds like Java's anonymous classes. Quite a useful feature, actually.

Re: Dart language

#214

Post by rdtsc »

clownz0r wrote: post #84
masklinn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This looks like Java for Javascript, if that makes any kind of sense. It completely does. And I love that it manages to be completely incoherent with Go, the other "Google Language". That's so symptomatic of what google does on that front.

Weird that a systems language and a web language are different, huh?

I don't see any reason why the syntax of a systems language couldn't be the same as the syntax of a web language. They can have different libraries available to them for example but syntax doesn't have to be different.

Re: Dart language

#215

Post by sambeau »

sambeau wrote: post #168
surrealize wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For human readers we use periods, not line breaks.

Code is more like poetry.

That was not a flippant remark.

Lines of code are clauses not sentences. This is also true of poetry.

A sentence is more akin to a stanza in poetry, and a function in code.

While I could entertain an argument for lines ending in commas and for functions to end with periods there is no reasonable argument for lines to end with periods (is there a language where a line is equal to a function?).

APL, and to some degree Perl, are examples of languages where to you might consider a period half-way through a line.

Re: Dart language

#216

Post by swah »

There is something magical about programming languages, and I just felt motivated to continue studying PLP.

Re: Dart language

#217

Post by iaskwhy »

nzonbi wrote: post #156
zohebv wrote: post #65

From whatever little I see, I am already hating it :-) This looks like Java for Javascript, if that makes any kind of sense. We are in the year 2011, PL design has progressed so much since 1990 that such an anachronism is unpardonable. I sincerely wish that companies like Google focus on hiring the right kind of person for designing programming languages. What is frustrating is that there are so many people who can d…

Agree with parent comment. My opinion, so far: Overall: uninspired. Below what I was expecting. Probably good for Google goals (tooling, migrating developers, etc) The language is somewhat interesting, but unfortunately saddened by an incredibly boring syntax. At this point, I am thinking that they would have been better off just going with the Go language for this. Looks like something good to migrate fleets of java…

What does "boring Java-like syntax" mean? Can anyone show some quick examples of a boring and a not boring syntax?

Re: Dart language

#218

Post by secoif »

surrealize wrote: post #124
secoif wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programmers care about it because it adds extra noise to your program. If you semantically, and naturally, communicate "end of statement" with a line break to human readers, why should you have to say it again with a semicolon to the compiler? Programming languages should focus on being DRY.

For human readers we use periods, not line breaks.

The context is programming, not writing.

Re: Dart language

#219

Post by nene »

jurre wrote: post #197
nene wrote: post #187

My hopes were high, but the more read about it, the more it started to look like Java: class Foo implements Comparable Observable Deniable ... Why not have interfaces like in Go, where you just define a set of methods and all classes having the methods will automatically implement the interface. Collection HashMap HashSet LinkedHashMap List Map Set Why not just Array and Hash? And what's up with the whole generics th…

>int bool String Object Why do some types start with lowercase and some with uppercase letter. Why not use a sensible naming convention? Primitives and objects, it kind of makes sense but I do see your point.

But the thing is, they are not primitives:

> Although you might expect int and double to be primitive types, they're actually interfaces that extend the num interface. This means that int and double variables are also nums.

Re: Dart language

#220

Post by secoif »

methodin wrote: post #194
secoif wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programmers care about it because it adds extra noise to your program. If you semantically, and naturally, communicate "end of statement" with a line break to human readers, why should you have to say it again with a semicolon to the compiler? Programming languages should focus on being DRY.

I very often use and see "single" line of code flow onto more than one line for readability. So often a line break is definitely not enough.

I wasn't suggesting exclusive use of linebreak… Semicolon with no linebreak is fine, but semicolon + linebreak is 100% additional cruft. One or the other. Say it once.
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