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Design of This Website (2021)

gwern.net

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Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#151

Post by galaxyLogic »

epolanski wrote: post #133
sdevonoes wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have lists implemented like divs, navs like divs, lack of appropriate attributes, aria labels and few other things. Since I don't use accessibility tools: how big of a deal is this for people who do? I try to keep my personal website lightweight, but I think I also use `div` for almost everything.

For this particular website the impact isn't tragic, you can navigate, but you cannot navigate efficiently nor you can figure out well what and where you're navigating to. In short, it's usable but not perfect, the sidebar should be a nav rather than a div to convey it's where major and meaningful navigation is found. It's not easy to figure out without the visual feedback that those links are different than the othe…

> the sidebar should be a nav rather than a div to convey it's where major and meaningful navigation is found

I think you are mixing two issues here, what's good for the end user and what's good for the developer and maintenance of the site. Both matter of course greatly but I think this article was about optimizing the user-experience.

From the users' point of view does it matter if a section is a 'nav' or a 'div' which has CSS-class 'nav' assigned to it?

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#152

Post by exodust »

leephillips wrote: post #117
exodust wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> serif fonts Can't understand why websites choose serif fonts. I find long passages of text a chore to read when the font is serif. They're less readable than sans-serif, as the little feet on every letter adds up to unnecessary visual clutter. And when rendered as white text on a black page, with compacted line spacing, the contrasty serif fonts won't be inviting to the reader.

“Can't understand why websites choose serif fonts. I find long passages of text a chore to read when the font is serif.” Reading books must be a problem, as most of those are set in serif type. The traditional view is that long passages are easier to read in serif fonts, but tastes vary, and there’s not a lot of good evidence for it. Personally, I find it to be true. Are you reading on a blurry (dpi < 200) screen? Th…

Reading books isn't a problem because the serif fonts are tiny black printed letters on paper. Serif helps the small letters stand out. A computer screen doesn't share the same type size issues. When combined with high contrast, I favor the sans and am surprised anyone would prefer serif if given choice.

A monitor with less than 200 ppi isn't blurry!

If interested, here's the exact moment recently I thought "oh how I dislike serif fonts".... I think I bailed half way through... https://blog.thenewoil.org/why-to-care-about-privacy-after-y...

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#153

Post by carrolldunham »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #144
iamacyborg wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the absolute extreme minimalist website is one that doesn't exist. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what minimalistic design means. If you've identified that you need a website, minimalism would be paring that down to the core essentials and ensuring it has everything it needs, but nothing more, to suit its purpose.

That's exactly what I've done.

Why does it need a background image?

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#154

Post by michaelgrafl »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #102
notafraudster wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey dude, I just want to give you some feedback as an outside observer. You advanced your own website as somewhere between a solid execution and an ideal for minimalistic design. Virtually every reply you've gotten has been some variation of "Wow, I don't much like this design". You reply to each of the replies insisting you're right and demanding people explain to you how you're not. People are taking time out of th…

Anyone who submits critical feedback must be prepared to receive critical feedback in return. I'm not sure what you're saying. This is a discussion forum. Discussion unavoidably demands participants to take some time to participate.

I think notafraudster might be suggesting that you're lacking self-awareness because you seem very defensive when it comes to your design decisions instead of really listening to people's complaints.

Just as an example, I find right aligned text hard to read, no matter your rational behind it. Might be because I'm not used to it, but who is?

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#155

Post by galaxyLogic »

watersb wrote: post #75

Love the comments. Blows my mind how diverse the reactions are. I read most HN on a 9 year old iPad. It's savage, raw compute would be fast enough, but limited RAM and pinned to a very old version of Mobile Safari. I generally keep JavaScript disabled, otherwise hangs are all too common. If I can't at least read the basic idea of a web article at these settings, I move on. Perhaps it's arrogant of me, but I'm exasper…

You make a good point. Medium is the message. In the recording industry they spent a lot of effort optimizing recordings for AM radios. The question is not "Does it sound great on state of the art Hi-Fi?" but "Does it sounds great for most of the listeners?"

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#156

Post by galaxyLogic »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #56
julvo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing Gwern's to your website is really interesting. I'd argue, Gwern's website is a good example of minimalist design, whereas the website you posted is the opposite. To me, minimalist design is as little design as possible (Dieter Rams). All design elements need to serve and enhance usability/functionality of the product. That doesn't mean that the total functionality of something needs to be minimal. E.g. you…

> I see design elements that don't serve the usability of the website Every single thing you listed has a purpose. > the background image is a blurry gradient of colors magenta and orange, angled off-axis. In other words, the complete opposite of the page contents: Sharp black and white precisely-aligned text. The purpose of a background is to contrast the foreground. Mission accomplished. > the colour of the toolbar…

> your eyes have an easier time picking the correct next line.

Are you saying that right-aligned text is easier to read? Are there any studies on that? If that's the case then why isn't everybody like HN for instance already right-aligning their content?

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#157

Post by leephillips »

exodust wrote: post #152
leephillips wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Can't understand why websites choose serif fonts. I find long passages of text a chore to read when the font is serif.” Reading books must be a problem, as most of those are set in serif type. The traditional view is that long passages are easier to read in serif fonts, but tastes vary, and there’s not a lot of good evidence for it. Personally, I find it to be true. Are you reading on a blurry (dpi < 200) screen? Th…

Reading books isn't a problem because the serif fonts are tiny black printed letters on paper. Serif helps the small letters stand out. A computer screen doesn't share the same type size issues. When combined with high contrast, I favor the sans and am surprised anyone would prefer serif if given choice. A monitor with less than 200 ppi isn't blurry! If interested, here's the exact moment recently I thought "oh how I…

At typical laptop distance, 200 dpi is around where you can start to see individual dots. This varies by individual of course, but I think that’s more-or-less right. That’s blurry. It’s also where font hinting starts to matter.

Your example seems perfectly fine to me, and is easy and pleasant to read. I’m reading on a Surface Pro 3 that came out in 2014, that I bought on Ebay for $200 and put Linux on. It has a non-blurry screen, as do all phones these days. Non-blurry screens are essential for reading text, and no longer confined to the wealthy. Hallelujah!

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#158

Post by extra88 »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #146
extra88 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>an HTML-only page that renders content semantically It would have been more semantic to use for emphasized text instead of . Placeholders on form fields are not labels. The comment submit button has tabindex="-1", preventing keyboard users from submitting a comment.

> The comment submit button has tabindex="-1", preventing keyboard users from submitting a comment. You can just hit Enter after typing your name. No need to select the button.

"Your name" isn't a required field and pressing Enter doesn't do that when the textarea is focused.

Additionally, not everyone knows that's the default behavior for pressing Enter in a text input and it's common for forms to be implemented in such a way that it doesn't work.

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#159

Post by galaxyLogic »

extra88 wrote: post #124
enriquto wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Flags for currency mostly work Do you think so? Which flag would you use for euros? Obviously not the european union flag, since there are many countries inside the EU with a different currency (like Sweden or Poland) and even countries outside the EU whose currency is the euro (Montenegro, Kosovo, Andorra, ...).

Yeah, you're right. I did think EU membership was more aligned with use of the Euro (I only knew about the UK using the Pound but they're out). It's still true that each country chooses its currency but it would be just as weird to pick one country in the EU to represent Euros as picking one country to represent a language.

Same goes for Spanish. Which country's flag should represent it? Most people probably don't even know the flag of Spain and readers in Latin America might be offended.

I think the fact is that languages simply don't have visual symbols for them. They are spoken or written, not "looked at". Languages are linear, not 2-dimensional. Euros and Dollars have their symbol because that's what is printed on the 2D surface of bills.

Re: Design of This Website (2021)

#160

Post by MaxLeiter »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #151
epolanski wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For this particular website the impact isn't tragic, you can navigate, but you cannot navigate efficiently nor you can figure out well what and where you're navigating to. In short, it's usable but not perfect, the sidebar should be a nav rather than a div to convey it's where major and meaningful navigation is found. It's not easy to figure out without the visual feedback that those links are different than the othe…

> the sidebar should be a nav rather than a div to convey it's where major and meaningful navigation is found I think you are mixing two issues here, what's good for the end user and what's good for the developer and maintenance of the site. Both matter of course greatly but I think this article was about optimizing the user-experience. From the users' point of view does it matter if a section is a 'nav' or a 'div' w…

screen readers don’t account for css. You either need it to be a semantic element or an element with role=“nav”
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