CalyxOS releases test builds for Fairphone 4, OnePlus 8T, and OnePlus 9

Could even be part of the Firewall application in CalyxOS for all I care (have run this on a Pixel 4a for a year now and very impressed with the update cycle and stability offered).

I think it is helpful to convey the emotion that goes through me when I read such a remark.

> It includes a compatibility layer for users to run it in the full, strictest API 32 app sandbox with all the standard GrapheneOS enhancements.

How does it handle Doze? In original Android, no app is allowed to keep a TCP connection open forever. And without that, FCM is useless. Also I believe that having Google Play Services running permanently has an impact (more on that later in this comment)

> You can see for yourself that the full featured Google Maps app completely works without Google Play, and that their Ads SDK and other libraries work without it.

That's an interesting point, thanks, I'll probably spend some time exploring those things. That Google garden does such things doesn't really surprise me.

> Only apps using the Lite variant of the Ads SDK need Google Play services for it to work.

From the description of Lite Ads SDK, it sounds like something that every app developer should want, yet it looks like Google is down-publicizing it a lot, so noone actually use it, nice workaround from Google, thanks for the info.

I see you're focusing your whole speech on Ads SDK. Does it mean only the ads SDK has this behavior?

My personal use of microg is for apps I trust (mostly opensource, or where I'm a paying customer), which work (much) better with cloud messaging. (I have to admit, I trust those apps enough to know they don't have ads, but not enough to trust they don't have ads sdk). So I do believe that for my usecase, microg gives me a much better privacy than Play Services, because most apps won't contain the infinite list of trackers Google Play Services include. But if you have proofs of otherwise, please do enlighten me, you're more knowledgable than me on SDKs.

FWIW, I have one metric (a rather stupid one, I agree) which is IMO showing that there is a huge difference: the data transferred and the battery usage. I have an order of magnitude difference in data transferred, and I get at least 3 times more battery life in suspend. Which IMO definitely highlights the fact that Google Play Services running permanently has its own privacy impacts, even when giving them minimal permissions.

> CalyxOS doesn't simply include microG with users encouraged to use it. They use Google services by default, with no way to turn them off.

"Google services" are 100MB+ proprietary code, sending god knows what to Google. CalyxOS doesn't have 100MB+ proprietary code, with microg you exactly know which data is sent. And actually if I'm not mistaken, microg doesn't do google registration or cloud messaging by default, so I don't think it does any Google connection by default? I'm not exactly sure there. I'm sure cloud messaging is disabled by default though, so no permanent connection

> They recently went almost 4 months without shipping the browser or Android security updates, including multiple vulnerabilities caught being exploited in the wild and announced as such in bulletins.

Just like the biggest (or maybe second or third, I don't really track that) corporation in the world on their flagship, while they are 50000 times smaller? But anyway, you're right: again, I said that on security grounds, I'd always pick GrapheneOS, and that the relation between privacy and security is pretty complicated, and I understand that some privacy threat models requires stronger security than trust.

---------------- Edit: Removed this part which is no longer relevant.

> They significantly roll back the security model of the OS.

I'm guessing you're speaking of microg implementation when you say "roll back the security model". I'm curious why you didn't answer to the comment where I ask to point out precisely how that roll backs the security model.

https://twitter.com/DanielMicay/status/1511639628637511681

You shouldn't lie about things that are so easily disproven. The main thing you disallow in your rooms are people defending GrapheneOS against your misinformation and libel. Those are the people who get quickly banned. You're frequently the ones engaging and spearheading this. You only ban people when it's not going your way and then you clean things up after the fact just as you're doing here. The fact remains that you have NOT banned the people openly involved in highly abusive behavior, and you're directly part of it yourselves too.

Nick is frequently one of the people directly involved in bullying and libel targeting me along with pushing blatant misinformation about GrapheneOS. The incredibly toxic behavior directed towards us comes from the top. Nick, you and Techlore have orchestrated this. You're directly responsible for the highly abusive behavior directed towards me and you're going to be held accountable for it whether you like it or not. You act as if you're trying to stop it but you're more focused on removing the messages of people countering vicious attacks on us than you are on stopping the abuse you've regularly engaged it and encouraged. It did not become what it is now without the direct support of the Calyx organization and CalyxOS. Everyone tied to the organization is tainted by it and it will follow them.

I have plenty more screenshots to post on Twitter if you folks would like showing extremely abusive behavior from Nick. I can show both you and him supporting the abusive behavior and raids towards us. Most of these attacks come directly from the top and are heavily based on the libel and misinformation from you, Nick and Henry. The legacy of your project will be your abusive behavior. It's how you're going to be remembered. It's not as if you're doing anything beyond marketing and misleading users beyond that.

Eventually you folks are going to pay the cost of your nasty character assassination campaign and misinformation war both to promote your project and to harm GrapheneOS. You don't even do remotely the same kind of work. From the start, all you've done is try to take advantage of an unfortunate takeover attempt on our project. The attempt at undermining us was happening even in your early days when we were helping you and telling people about your project.

This is never going to go away and your continued escalation over the past year and especially the past few months is not going to go unanswered. You think you can get away with it because all we've done is talk about what's happening. It's not going to remain that way. Any project, conference or organization where you're involved and who you work with inherits all of this baggage going forward until you make any real attempt at reversing this and repairing the harm that has been caused. It will follow you around for the rest of your life. You will always be the people who engaged in extremely abusive behavior towards someone which a dozen people in your room who you have not banned have openly said is aimed at trying to drive me to kill myself. You were openly against even banning Kiwi Farms. There is nothing more that needs to be said.

I have been a happy GOS user for years. Sadly, my Pixel 3a EOL is next month. I opted for an iPhone this time as they generally are supported for longer periods of time.

Maybe my next phone will be a phone designed for GOS :)