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One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

nrk.no

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Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#331

Post by kannanvijayan »

qiskit wrote: post #319
KarlKemp wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, see, that's but one example of how your unwillingness or inability to accept any complexity or nuance gets in the way of thinking. The TV license system is set up specifically so that the institution is somewhat isolated from day-to-day politics. It's a completely different situation if the PM can decide on a whim to fund you or not, or if there's a difficult-to-change law that sets the fees that you get for a de…

> No, see, that's but one example of how your unwillingness or inability to accept any complexity or nuance gets in the way of thinking. Or maybe I've heard the "tv license" excuse for many years now. Nothing you wrote is new to me. Surprised you didn't post a link to BBC edited wikipedia article. > If you insist that everything is the same and all politicians are corrupt and all media are lying then you're just givi…

These are insightful and deep thoughts indeed :)

> I've no problem calling putin a corrupt politician. Just like I have no problem calling zelensky or biden or trump a corrupt politician.

Don't forget Pol Pot. These politicians are all the same.

I'm reminded of murderers Oscar Pistorious and Jeffrey Dahmer.

Likewise the terrorism of the French Resistance and Osama Bin Laden.

What a unique and valuable perspective to have. I'm sure you'd agree that such enlightenment is a curse, which is why the more feeble minded of us hide our eyes from these blinding truths.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#332

Post by megous »

user3939382 wrote: post #275
megous wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What of the Ukrainian people in Eastern Ukraine who have been getting bombed for 7 years in a civil war? What about them, exactly? https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/5... There was a major decrease in ceasefire violations in 2020 and 2021. Looks like to Russia that sounded like it's time to escalate and fix "the problem" whatever that is, by starting a major war and invading straight to Kyiv…

> There was a major decrease in ceasefire violations in 2020 and 2021 Yeah, according to your own linked report there were only "93,902 ceasefire violations" in 2021 with the violations clearly growing by the end of report period. I don't know anything about the credibility of this report, but your own evidence refutes your argument.

You didn't explain how it refutes the argument.

It's pretty obvious from the report that ceasefire violations as defined by OSCE SMM are down to one third to one fourth of years 2019 and prior.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#333

Post by soheil »

older wrote: post #224
soheil wrote: post #167

What is ironic is surely the dancing video mentioned and not that a publicly funded Norwegian government-owned media, NRK, (Jens Stoltenberg from Norway is the head of Nato) publishes a hit piece on TikTok all the while ignoring what FB, Twitter and many other social media have been doing to people in their own counties including the US for years. Very convenient.

You clearly have no idea what are you talking about. Here's what NRK has published about Facebook: https://nrkbeta.no/?s=F facebook Feel free to search for articles about other social media.

What? You literally just sent me a link to a keyword search for "Facebook" on that site.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#334

Post by kikimora »

VincentEvans wrote: post #320

Westerners should stop projecting their culture and values on Russians when trying to make sense of what is going on. Russians are not these poor bamboozled fools. Support for Putin is real. Denial of atrocities and justification for war is not rooted in ignorance, but pride. For years Kremlin cultivated in Russians a sense of injured pride, something akin to the “straight white male” victimhood and persecution compl…

All true. Same problem with my father. My wife also has the same problem with her father as well.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#335

Post by kikimora »

alex-ant wrote: post #160
cabirum wrote: post #152

Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter are blocked in Russia because they only allow pro-Ukraine narrative. The social platforms became weapons in this war. Anyone noticed they blocked accounts of most Russian media companies and news sources? Or users with "wrong" opinions are being shadow banned? Or Google deprioritised or excluded some Russian gov services (even non news)? Sorry, but unbiased sources do not exist. Free…

Currently Russia doesn't have a singe reliable news source. We all have seen the pro-Russian narrative - there's no war, we're not murdering the civilians, all Ukrainians are nazis developing bioweapons targeting "slav DNA" and to be delivered across the border by birds, etc. Those are not news. Needless to say that this propaganda also targets people in other countries with large ethnical Russian population, specifi…

meduza.io is one of a few you can use to get alternative view. They may be somewhat biased towards Russian opposition but way, way more objective compared to state media.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#336

Post by older »

soheil wrote: post #333
older wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have no idea what are you talking about. Here's what NRK has published about Facebook: https://nrkbeta.no/?s=F facebook Feel free to search for articles about other social media.

What? You literally just sent me a link to a keyword search for "Facebook" on that site.

Yes, that's what I literally did. And that's what you shoul've done before writing all that nonsence about how they are ignoring what other social media is doing.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#337

Post by just-ok »

NoOn3 wrote: post #305
mensetmanusman wrote: post #39

This is very sad. Obviously, it would be valuable if someone could suddenly change TikTok so that it thinks all Russians are Ukrainians. Such information warfare is vastly less violent than missiles and probably much cheaper to implement. The sooner the Russian population knows what their leadership is really accomplishing, the better for the world.

Maybe I'll get a lot of downvotes. I just write my opinion, maybe I'm wrong. It's clearly a certain number of people in Ukraine sympathize Russia. Yes it seems that more sympathize The West in the latest times, but this is not much of an overwhelming majority. From that majority has some small group of nationalist. And there are detailed recordings of their bloody crimes. Maybe sometimes Russian media exaggerates it,…

> We don’t have so much information that they have on their level.

I wish more people understood this. There is SO much more going on in this conflict than any layman can fathom. There’s deep context behind it spanning years, and the situation itself develops at a breakneck pace, yet everyone is suddenly an expert on the culture and history of the entire region and fully informed on what’s going on.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#338

Post by dotancohen »

FabHK wrote: post #220
Joeri wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the zen koan, does a piece of information exist of no one is around to read it? Self-hosting is mostly pointless because the problem is the walled gardens trapping global attention. Many people barely see a browser window, and consume all online information inside the walled gardens. Whether you publish outside that garden or not it is effectively the same, because they will never see what you write.

> Many people barely see a browser window, and consume all online information inside the walled gardens. I seem to recall a survey in South East Asia asking people about their internet use, and there were more Facebook users than internet users... Ah, here: https://qz.com/333313/milliions-of-facebook-users-have-no-id... "11% of Indonesians who said they used Facebook also said they did not use the internet."

Such survey results cannot be used to infer anything without understanding how the survey was worded. For instance, if one of the answers were "I use Facebook, but not the internet" then A) some people will choose it just by virtue of it being there, and B) it could occur to some people that the survey was poorly worded but meant "I do not use the internet for anything other than Facebook".

I remember a rash of such loaded survey questions going around my country a few years ago, it looked like it was specifically designed to be answered with answers that could be used to slander my nation with "N% of these people think this" results. It's usually not disinterested parties investing the time and resources to run these survey, rather, it's usually people for whom the investment will pay off if they can get the results they want.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#339

Post by BoiledCabbage »

nirui wrote: post #215
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem about the Internet today, is that most people thinks Amazon+Google+Facebook+Twitter+other big brands is the Internet. They forgot that they can host things themselves without those big tech companies. With all due respect the problem with the internet is that you (and many others) don't know what the Internet is. You and many others believe the Internet is what the internet is capable of. It's not. The…

If I understood it correctly, here is the key point of your comment: > The martial arts adage - don't bring a weapon unless you know how to use it / control it. Otherwise it will simply be taken from you and used against you. To put it simply, you think: a technology must be tested safe and can only be used for the intended purpose, otherwise it will hurt you back and it's your (a technologist) own fault. While I do…

I appreciate the response, but a few errors in your comments.

> To put it simply, you think: a technology must be tested safe and can only be used for the intended purpose, otherwise it will hurt you back and it's your (a technologist) own fault.

No I don't belive a technology can only be used for it's intented purpose. In fact exactly the opposite - almost every technology will be used for purpose other than what you intented it to be used for. So understand what common, or motivating alternate purposes you are enabling with your tech and make sure you evaluate the consequences of them.

An example (not ideal because it is not how history happened): Inventing/discovering atomic enery also invents the atomic bomb. Don't jump start spreading the atomic energy everywhere touting its benefits unless you understand you'll also be spreading atomic bomb tech everywhere. Don't be surprised later when it happens and say "it's not supposed to be used that way". "They've corrupted the ideals we had of cheap clean energy for everyone".

> but it is almost impossible for them to have complete control over even their own invention, let the lone alterations of it.

Noone has absolutely/complete control over anything. (And a side point, frequently when arguments describe absolutes they are often standing up straw men)

> Often in the end, you can only hope that you've designed something good, and let the progress of things take care the rest.

This I strongly disagree with. You cannot an should not "only hope you've designed something good". You should also have evaluated in designing something good that you're not also designing something bad. That is your responsibility as well.

Don't make an information harvesting platform and then be dismayed when people use it to harvest information you don't think should be harvested. Don't make cell hacking software then be shocked that authoritarian govts use it to hack their citizens' phones. Don't put backdoors in software then be apalled that the "wrong" people use them.

> Let me put my end opinion here: Internet is promoting democracy,...

It is now. And I sincerly hope it continues to do so in the future. History, all of the above and the linked article on TikTok shows that "[letting] the progress of things take care the rest" means that it likely will not continue to do so in the future without diliberate concerted effort to ensure it does. When most of the internet looks and behaves like TikTok.

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