Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants?

news.ycombinator.com

291–300 of 388 posts

Re: Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants?

#291

PLEASE do not read any of these people's advice. Talk to a MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, preferably a DOCTOR. DO NOT trust your mental health to strangers on the internet, be it reddit, or hacker news, or whatever. If you are based in the US and live nearby a university they usually have good counseling services and the infrastructure to refer people even if you're not attending the school. Search "{school} counseling servic…

I too can only advice the OP to seek a true medical advice with preferably a face to face consultation. Now my personal experience: anti-depressants do work and often with little or no side effects. A doctor will prescribe what is best in your particular case. Allow for a few weeks for the effects to be felt, then you can decide if you want to continue using the product or not. It is best to take again medical advice at that time. Do not self-medicate! Many plant based products have side effects for often a low effect.

Re: Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants?

#292
post #18

I have had depression for years. Slowly creeping in. Last year three things happened: 1. I got a light antidepressants 2. I switched from smoking weed with tabacco to without tabacco 3. I took ecstasy for the first time Number one lifted my mood. Number two reduced my lethargic and number three Reminded me how it feels to be happy and it gave me back human empathy as well. I was wearing glasses for a long time and th…

> I took ecstasy for the first time

The middle part of PiHKAL (Phenethylamines I Have Known and Loved) talks about successfully using MDMA for treatment. Interesting book. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30827112

Re: Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants?

#293
> SSRIs and other anti-depressants. These drugs are very powerful but have really bad side-effects for most people that take them.

Obviously not a majority of people. Otherwise they’d be illegal by now.

That said, you are right to be cautious. There are definitely people who have severe blowback from these drugs. But given the amount of misery you are in it might be worth reevaluating your reluctance.

Re: Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants?

#294
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> my free speech to advocate he not be allowed to do so here. I would like to advocate that you should not be allowed to advocate for censoring people. Therefore, I have flagged your comment.

If the HN community wants to censor my comment, they're perfectly free to, and I personally don't mind; that's why the feature is there, after all.

Re: Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants?

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

The past two years opened a ton of eyes regarding the fallibility of the medical community. Turns out most doctors prescribe what is recommended by the professional organization they’re a member or the CDC. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been at my daughter’s pediatrician’s office and the doctor either hands me a print out of the CDC website or actively googles something in front of me during a visit. Sometim…

The point is not that medical professionals have all the answers, the point is they have more answers than you do, and have better experience and resources available to them to seek answers they do not currently have.

Individual medical professionals making mistakes does not give you the excuse to ignore their vastly superior skills at handling medical situations.

If you don't like your doctor, find another one, do not attempt treatment on your own. If you do so, you are putting the people you love and care about in incredible danger, to the point where you may have your children taken away from you, and rightly so.

It is the height of stupidity to think you know better than the entire medical profession on any topic, no matter how much you've researched said topic.

Re: Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants?

#296
Co-founder of a mental health group practice here. There is so much to unpack in this question and with all of the comments below. I will do my best. Disclaimer, we are a cognitive behavioral therapy "shop" and not medical doctors who prescribe medication. We do, however, specialize in the treatment of anxiety and depression. Also, I am not a licensed professional and am not giving any advice. I just employ the professionals that do.

Medication obviously has a place in the treatment of mental health disorders, but if you, for example, are in a toxic relationship with a spouse, parent or child, have experienced death of a loved one, are suffering from drug or sex addiction, an eating disorder, suicidal ideation, or are in an emotionally or physically abusive home environment, then meds are just going to treat your symptoms and not help you change the circumstances of your life that are causing your condition.

> Life has taken me on ups and downs but as far as I can can tell I'm fairly lucky, well-off and have every reason to be happy.

Details really matter here. You can have every good thing in the world, but it only takes one instance of trauma, grief or loss to harm your long-term mental health.

> I usually end up using all my effort just to be a functional member of my team at work.

A person's life is much more than just their work. If all of one's energy goes into work, it's likely that their personal life is suffering as a result and thus either causing or exacerbating the underlying condition.

> I wake up with a pit in my stomach that I carry around all day and no matter how hard I try I just can't shake it.

This can be a symptom of anxiety. You cannot make it go away by force of will. There are medications that reduce feelings of anxiety, but if the cause is that you're worried about losing your job, getting sick, being left by your partner, etc. then medications will not help resolve those problems, though they may make them more tolerable.

> I have tried therapy, I have tried all sorts of coping mechanisms but nothing solves the problem permanently.

This sounds like a cognitive distortion. Details really, really matter here. One of the challenges in scaling the therapeutic treatment of mental illness is that a great deal of the efficacy of therapy depends on a person's willingness to actively engage with the circumstances of their life that are causing their condition as well as the therapists ability to effectively communicate and guide a patient to a state of mental well-being. Learning to cope with a problem is different than solving a problem.

For example, if you have a toxic parent, you can try to cope with that toxicity, try to communicate how you're being harmed by the toxicity and hope your parent responds positively, or cut off all communication with that parent. Sometimes the painful decision is the right one for your mental health. Are you willing to take that step? Could you find a therapist to even make the suggestion?

Many therapists, I venture to guess, would not make that suggestion but believe it to be the right one (as it sometimes is). Making that kind of honest, practical and effective guidance widely available is hard because the "industry" is trained to refrain from expressing personal opinions and unfortunately oriented in a much more passive fashion; partly due to concerns over liability and partly because the personality types attracted to the field are generally not assertive and direct.

> So HN, what has your experience been with depression? Have you tried the drugs? What worked or didn't? Have you been able to triumph without chemical assistance and what did that look like? Is my utter terror of these drugs warranted or should I just bite the bullet and try them?

DO NOT ask the internet to tell you which medications to take. If you are jaded by the field of psychiatry, then start with your primary care physician who can also prescribe those same medications, evaluate you for depression and anxiety, and ask them for a referral to a mental health professional that specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). Different states have different titles and licenses for these professionals, but if you are in the state of California, some titles and licenses to look for are the following:

- Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT) - Licensed Master Social Worker (LMSW) - Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) - Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor (LPCC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_therapy

Re: Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants?

#297
Get every help you can.

No, the side effects are not "really bad". Especially not for "most people". Your post says to me you are self-diagnosing and working of a warped set of information from who knows what kind of sources. Ask professionals to diagnose and treat you.

Re: Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants?

#298

If you want to avoid SSRIs, you can try ketamine treatment. Should be able to find it in most major cities now. In my city the cash price is about $400/a session and you probably need 2-3 sessions. Pros: if it works you will start to feel better in just a few days, and you only have to get a few 2-4 hour treatments a year. Cons: hard to get insurance to pay for it, SSRI are cheaper. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blo…

Fortunately there are compounded racemic ketamine options in a lot of places, whether troches (lozenges) or nasal spray (that's the one I use). I pay out of pocket fully, and it's $60/month. Clearly YMMV, but worth looking into if the infusions are prohibitively expensive.

Yes, Esketamine (what they're calling S-ketamine) can be a good one. Just be careful if there's any history of psychosis.

It nearly got me stabbed and had to be discontinued. It really can work on depression, though, in a way the other drugs just don't.

Makes me wonder how much the others are doing, honestly, though missing a dose causes misery. I truly wonder sometimes what just slowly getting off them all would do to her.

Re: Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants?

#299
My friend is a poor methylator [0], which means she can't turn the provitamin food fortification folic acid into Vitamin B-9. The prescription drug Deplin is a form of Vitamin B-9 that is approved as an add-on therapy, for when 'antidepressants don't work'. AFAIK, people who are poor methylators say they do better when they avoid folic acid.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30334122

I have commented before about my efforts to help my friend get appropriate treatment. My latest filing, a petition for rehearing, has been distributed to the Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States [1]. Hopefully they'll talk about it at their conference on April 14 2022.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30884187

Sometimes people benefit from the SSRIs' allepregnanolone boost [2].

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30550919

Re: Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants?

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone experiences depression differently. SSRIs made a tremendous difference to me and my mom where therapy and various other treatments did not. Please be careful; this attitude places the blame on the person experiencing depression, and feeling guilty about being depressed is a vicious cycle that can have catastrophic effects. There are some for whom depression is a product of their environment. For some of thos…

I'm glad it is working for you but my point is that because SSRI and Western medicine largely addresses the observed biomechanical process, it is never going to be a complete solution, and hence I use the term band-aid. Addressing why through therapy can work but obviously if that was true we wouldn't need SSRIs in the first place. My point was that the Western approach to mental health has largely been the opposite…

Usually when you change your environment ("tickets to Bangkok" as you say) the depression comes along with you.

If you have a specific stressor like a horrible job or abusive family member, leaving that situation can vastly improve your mental health. But otherwise, just flying somewhere else won't do much.

Post reply on HN