Stanford prof calls police after whistleblower exposes $5000/hour gov. contacts • Hacker News Board

Re: Stanford prof calls police after whistleblower exposes $5000/hour gov. contacts

#21

Post by tyingq » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 2:00 AM UTC

prepend wrote: post #13

It seems an odd complaint that the author publish a paper without any black co-authors. Why is that noteworthy?

It appears to be more than a paper. It's 900+ pages, 14 chapters, and apparently intended to guide how California public schools teach math. With an emphasis on making it work better for minority students. Some sections have been deleted in the draft process, including some on "racism behind past math policies and practices".[1]

[1] https://edsource.org/2022/california-revises-new-math-framew...

Re: Stanford prof calls police after whistleblower exposes $5000/hour gov. contacts

#22

Post by gruez » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 2:02 AM UTC

sgdjgkeirj wrote: post #9

version_five wrote: post #5

This seems like an agitator trying to raise a fuss, not a "whistleblower" (I guess maybe that's how the term is used now). I'd encourage people to read the surrounding tweets, he looks like someone who wants to be outraged about something more than a brave soul calling out some malfeasance. That aside, if this money is for facilitating sessions, as another comment implies, it is perfectly reasonable. The facilitator…

Prof Nelson didn’t call himself “whistleblower “ but it does seem untoward that the main author of the California math framework is also making $5000/hour when the client is not a tech company but a public school district with mostly minority and economically disadvantaged students. In any case, if there is nothing untoward, why threaten him with “police and lawyers”?

>but it does seem untoward that the main author of the California math framework is also making $5000/hour when the client is not a tech company but a public school district with mostly minority and economically disadvantaged students

It seems lazy to dismiss that person just because he charges a high rate. If his services are effective and there's no better alternatives, who cares how much it costs? People getting outraged at high public salaries is exactly the reason why we get mediocre civil servants.

Re: Stanford prof calls police after whistleblower exposes $5000/hour gov. contacts

#23

Post by leereeves » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 2:02 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #20

leereeves wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how his original tweet [1] could possibly be considered harassment. Libel, perhaps, if untrue, but that's a civil matter, not something that police would handle. 1: https://twitter.com/minilek/status/1509678967472549889

California’s indirect cyber harassment law (Penal Code § 653.2) prohibits nonconsensual electronic publication of personally identifying information “for the purpose of imminently causing that other person unwanted physical contact, injury, or harassment, by a third party“ when the information published would be likely to produce or incite the unlawful act that is it's purpose. It's basically an anti-malicious-doxxin…

None of his tweets call for "unwanted physical contact, injury, or harassment".

Whatever the likely effect of exposing this deal, the government cannot be allowed to suppress reporting it simply because it is outrageous enough to cause angry responses. That's perverse.

If public outrage over "alarmingly lucrative" government contracts is prosecuted as harassment, we're lost.

Re: Stanford prof calls police after whistleblower exposes $5000/hour gov. contacts

#24

Post by nyc640 » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 2:06 AM UTC

prepend wrote: post #13

It seems an odd complaint that the author publish a paper without any black co-authors. Why is that noteworthy?

It's not that they published a paper without any Black co-authors.

There has been a controversial push in California to reform public school math education guidelines called the California Math Framework [1]. It [2] frames current math education in California as failing minority students and gives suggestions for how to remedy it. The issue has been controversial as some see it as injecting social justice topics into the math curriculum, while others see it as necessary to contextualize math within our broader society. (edit: corrected by the other reply to your comment that said some of the parts of the framework about adding social justice topics have been removed from the most recent draft of the framework)

The tweet author is pointing out that this 800-page framework about addressing inequalities in math education for minority (in particular Black and Latino) students was written by many authors, but none of them were Black. This seems like a valid criticism given the issues that it is explicitly trying to address.

There have also been similar criticisms levied at the new framework because it was written entirely by academic researchers studying pedagogy and had little to no input from actual teachers.

[1] https://calmatters.org/education/k-12-education/2021/11/cali...

[2] https://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/ma/cf/

Re: Stanford prof calls police after whistleblower exposes $5000/hour gov. contacts

#25

Post by leereeves » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 2:08 AM UTC

hansvm wrote: post #14

leereeves wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the rate is reasonable, what's the justification for involving the police?

The stated reason was doxxing.

He didn't doxx her before the threat was made. Doxxing means revealing private personal information, but the contract (paid with government funds) that he shared is public record and thus not private by definition.

He may have doxxed her by revealing her email address but that happened after the threat.

Re: Stanford prof calls police after whistleblower exposes $5000/hour gov. contacts

#26

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 2:09 AM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #23

dragonwriter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California’s indirect cyber harassment law (Penal Code § 653.2) prohibits nonconsensual electronic publication of personally identifying information “for the purpose of imminently causing that other person unwanted physical contact, injury, or harassment, by a third party“ when the information published would be likely to produce or incite the unlawful act that is it's purpose. It's basically an anti-malicious-doxxin…

None of his tweets call for "unwanted physical contact, injury, or harassment". Whatever the likely effect of exposing this deal, the government cannot be allowed to suppress reporting it simply because it is outrageous enough to cause angry responses. That's perverse. If public outrage over "alarmingly lucrative" government contracts is prosecuted as harassment, we're lost.

> Nothing in his message calls for "unwanted physical contact, injury, or harassment".

The law does not require a call for those things, it requires a purpose and likelihood of inciting them. Both intent and likelihood of effect are things that are routinely found (in criminal law generally) without an explicit call.

Re: Stanford prof calls police after whistleblower exposes $5000/hour gov. contacts

#27

Post by daveed » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 2:12 AM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #11

sgdjgkeirj wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prof Nelson didn’t call himself “whistleblower “ but it does seem untoward that the main author of the California math framework is also making $5000/hour when the client is not a tech company but a public school district with mostly minority and economically disadvantaged students. In any case, if there is nothing untoward, why threaten him with “police and lawyers”?

Let's have this again, Prof Nelson is siccing his Twitter mob on a person doing her job - no matter what we think about the honorarium, Prof Boaler's job is math didactics for disadvantaged populations. That's not "nothing untoward".

He has 7k followers as of now, and probably gained a large # of them because of this tweet (which is his most circulated tweet). It's not "his" Twitter mob.

Re: Stanford prof calls police after whistleblower exposes $5000/hour gov. contacts

#28

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 2:13 AM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #21

prepend wrote: post #13

It seems an odd complaint that the author publish a paper without any black co-authors. Why is that noteworthy?

It appears to be more than a paper. It's 900+ pages, 14 chapters, and apparently intended to guide how California public schools teach math. With an emphasis on making it work better for minority students. Some sections have been deleted in the draft process, including some on "racism behind past math policies and practices".[1] [1] https://edsource.org/2022/california-revises-new-math-framew...

[deleted]

Re: Stanford prof calls police after whistleblower exposes $5000/hour gov. contacts

#29

Post by prepend » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 2:21 AM UTC

nyc640 wrote: post #24

prepend wrote: post #13

It seems an odd complaint that the author publish a paper without any black co-authors. Why is that noteworthy?

It's not that they published a paper without any Black co-authors. There has been a controversial push in California to reform public school math education guidelines called the California Math Framework [1]. It [2] frames current math education in California as failing minority students and gives suggestions for how to remedy it. The issue has been controversial as some see it as injecting social justice topics into…

> academic researchers studying pedagogy and had little to no input from actual teachers.

This makes sense but doesn’t square with the lack of black authors. Would black academic researchers studying pegagogy be better than actual teachers?

It seems the issue is lack of teachers participating in the design and testing of the framework than the race of the authors.

Is there a evidence or accusation of discrimination in the selection of the authors?

Re: Stanford prof calls police after whistleblower exposes $5000/hour gov. contacts

#30

Post by nyc640 » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 2:32 AM UTC

prepend wrote: post #29

nyc640 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that they published a paper without any Black co-authors. There has been a controversial push in California to reform public school math education guidelines called the California Math Framework [1]. It [2] frames current math education in California as failing minority students and gives suggestions for how to remedy it. The issue has been controversial as some see it as injecting social justice topics into…

> academic researchers studying pedagogy and had little to no input from actual teachers. This makes sense but doesn’t square with the lack of black authors. Would black academic researchers studying pegagogy be better than actual teachers? It seems the issue is lack of teachers participating in the design and testing of the framework than the race of the authors. Is there a evidence or accusation of discrimination i…

I honestly have no idea because I haven't done (nor do I plan to do as I don't live in California anymore) enough research to have an informed opinion on the topic.

However, I think it is generally valid to say that if you are explicitly trying to address how a system (CA math education) is failing a certain group of people (black students), it would be useful to consult with members of that group or people who work closely with members of that group.

Again, I'm not taking a strong stance here and I'm sure there could hypothetically be some world where this may not be true and the X truly most qualified people to tackle this issue are all not Black. But even from a completely cynical, practical standpoint you can see how the optics look bad when the state of California admits to failing its Black students yet tasks a committee of professors to solve the issue without any representation from the groups it has failed.