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'Freeze-thaw battery' stores electricity long-term for seasonal release

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Re: 'Freeze-thaw battery' stores electricity long-term for seasonal release

#71

Post by uomo »

wppick wrote: post #66

Is there any examples of using something like a server farm to heat a building in the winter? Removing heat from a server farm through heat exchange with a cold building seems like an efficient combination of two interests (building needs heat, servers need to get rid of heat). Of course this becomes a problem in the summer months...

One of Amazon’s buildings in Seattle (Doppler) uses a data center next door to reduce their overall heating costs during the winter.

Source: https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/sustainability/the-super-ef...

Re: 'Freeze-thaw battery' stores electricity long-term for seasonal release

#72

Post by Quindecillion »

wppick wrote: post #66

Is there any examples of using something like a server farm to heat a building in the winter? Removing heat from a server farm through heat exchange with a cold building seems like an efficient combination of two interests (building needs heat, servers need to get rid of heat). Of course this becomes a problem in the summer months...

This is actually one of the use cases that Satoshi Nakamoto spoke about in regards to Bitcoin mining.

The purpose built machines for mining (ASICs) turn electrical energy into heat through performing hashes. If you need electrical heating there's functionally no difference between turning a regular heater on or turning on an ASIC. The benefit of turning an ASIC on instead is you can recoup some of the cost of expending the electricity.

Re: 'Freeze-thaw battery' stores electricity long-term for seasonal release

#73

Post by totallyabstract »

Quindecillion wrote: post #72
wppick wrote: post #66

Is there any examples of using something like a server farm to heat a building in the winter? Removing heat from a server farm through heat exchange with a cold building seems like an efficient combination of two interests (building needs heat, servers need to get rid of heat). Of course this becomes a problem in the summer months...

This is actually one of the use cases that Satoshi Nakamoto spoke about in regards to Bitcoin mining. The purpose built machines for mining (ASICs) turn electrical energy into heat through performing hashes. If you need electrical heating there's functionally no difference between turning a regular heater on or turning on an ASIC. The benefit of turning an ASIC on instead is you can recoup some of the cost of expendi…

A French company made a product along these lines already, but I don’t think it’s been updated since 2018: https://blog.qarnot.com/introducing-the-qc-1-crypto-heater/

It’s true this is as good as resistive heating in terms of heating efficiency, but it is still far less efficient than a heat pump. Unless you are in an area with a large excess of renewable energy it probably doesn’t make sense environmentally to use an asic heater.

Re: 'Freeze-thaw battery' stores electricity long-term for seasonal release

#74

Post by NickNameNick »

jdmichal wrote: post #63
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people are literally dying in the heat from heart attacks because city planning won't allow TFL to knoxk down a house sp they cam build a ventillation shaft

Do the tubes never cross a road? Why knock down a building instead of taking a vent to a street?

I think you're underestimating the size of vent needed.

They'll turn the entire plot into a single giant chimney, and decorate the face to match the houses either side of it.

like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/58_Joralemon_Street

Re: 'Freeze-thaw battery' stores electricity long-term for seasonal release

#75

Post by elil17 »

Quindecillion wrote: post #72
wppick wrote: post #66

Is there any examples of using something like a server farm to heat a building in the winter? Removing heat from a server farm through heat exchange with a cold building seems like an efficient combination of two interests (building needs heat, servers need to get rid of heat). Of course this becomes a problem in the summer months...

This is actually one of the use cases that Satoshi Nakamoto spoke about in regards to Bitcoin mining. The purpose built machines for mining (ASICs) turn electrical energy into heat through performing hashes. If you need electrical heating there's functionally no difference between turning a regular heater on or turning on an ASIC. The benefit of turning an ASIC on instead is you can recoup some of the cost of expendi…

The issue is that modern heat pumps are way more efficient than just a resistor. Not something that was obvious in Nakamoto’s day. Even gas furnaces are more efficient due to transmission losses.

If your house is one of the few that have an electric furnace, there’s no difference. For most people, though, there’s a huge difference. Running an appliance such as a computer to heat a house will cost more and be worse for the environment.

Re: 'Freeze-thaw battery' stores electricity long-term for seasonal release

#76

Post by lancewiggs »

Gasp0de wrote: post #18
phh wrote: post #7

It doesn't sound like the improvement of cost is enough the justify using it only for few cycles a year as the title says rather than every other day. That said, I see nothing in this article saying why it would be limited to seasonal release, I'm guessing it just has a lower self-discharge. The title made me thought of an idea my father had, for which I'm still totally ambivalent: Freeze water in the cellar (speakin…

This exists and is actually used in Germany, it is called "Eisspeicher" (ice storage). It is utilizing the effect that it takes a huge amount of energy for the water to go from solid to fluid, about the equivalent of heating water from 1 to 81 degrees.

MGAThermal does this with a range of materials, allowing heat storage at very high temperatures. https://www.mgathermalstorage.com

Re: 'Freeze-thaw battery' stores electricity long-term for seasonal release

#77

Post by simulate-me »

vikingerik wrote: post #61
alexchamberlain wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupid question: can we harness this 100 year old heat to power something today?

You can't exactly harness heat; what can be harnessed is a temperature differential , to convert into some form of mechanical motion or electrical potential. You'd need some apparatus that connects the hot mass and some cold sink with thermocouples. Whether that's possible or feasible on the scale of the London Tube, I don't know. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect Instead of that, probably a more fe…

Heat is energy, so I find it surprising that it can't be harnessed. Is it really not possible to take some of the energy out of a system and use it for something?

Re: 'Freeze-thaw battery' stores electricity long-term for seasonal release

#78

Post by ac29 »

simulate-me wrote: post #77
vikingerik wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't exactly harness heat; what can be harnessed is a temperature differential , to convert into some form of mechanical motion or electrical potential. You'd need some apparatus that connects the hot mass and some cold sink with thermocouples. Whether that's possible or feasible on the scale of the London Tube, I don't know. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect Instead of that, probably a more fe…

Heat is energy, so I find it surprising that it can't be harnessed. Is it really not possible to take some of the energy out of a system and use it for something?

Not all heat is useful. If there was a magic device that could take any heat and convert it into electricity, global warming could be trivially reversed.

Re: 'Freeze-thaw battery' stores electricity long-term for seasonal release

#79

Post by stubish »

alexchamberlain wrote: post #59
nikanj wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furthermore, we have a real problem with the soil storing heat: https://citymonitor.ai/transport/londons-tube-has-been-runni...

Stupid question: can we harness this 100 year old heat to power something today?

Pump cold air down, suck warmer air up, heat buildings in winter. Same idea lots of passive houses use to regulate temperature.

Re: 'Freeze-thaw battery' stores electricity long-term for seasonal release

#80

Post by arcticbull »

ac29 wrote: post #78
simulate-me wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat is energy, so I find it surprising that it can't be harnessed. Is it really not possible to take some of the energy out of a system and use it for something?

Not all heat is useful. If there was a magic device that could take any heat and convert it into electricity, global warming could be trivially reversed.

There is the Seebeck effect, where you run a Peltier junction in reverse. Efficiency is, to put it mildly, low. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator

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