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The next Google

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Re: The next Google

#251
I personally think this new search engine sucks. There's 1000 good reasons to create a new search engine to fight Google but they don't get it, they don't have vision and their features just sucks.

"[...]We do not log or associate searches with an account.[...]" why would I trust that and why would a create an account in the first place ?

Re: The next Google

#252

I just went on a mini vacation to Vegas, and was thinking how nice it would be to just call up someone and ask for some simple advice. I did a bunch of online research before I booked things, but man was it painful. There are so many copy-cat blogs who just throw together a bunch of basic information with no real research done in order to get those clicks/adwords. For example: best hotel pool in vegas. Seems simple e…

> So, personally, I think the future will be actual human service. I love the idea. However… You have invented an influencer hellscape. Not to mention the complete subjectiveness of so many things.

Imagine all these humans will be paid / corrupted by the destinations if they hold outsize influence

Re: The next Google

#253

I think 'more customization' which is a theme with a lot of these alternatives is a fundamental dead end. I don't know where this persistent myth comes from that people love choice and tinkering, because they clearly don't. There's a huge cost associated with having to make choices, and one feature of successful modern apps is that they're frictionless. That's why TikTok is so successful. There's no login, no user ch…

At https://you.com we believe in choice but not force it. It will just work out of the box, but as folks shop or get really into something like coding - we have heard from many users that they like or dislike certain sources or apps. Like w3school - it's in every search engine but some folks hate it so they can downvote it.

I personally benefitted a lot from the ability to like the reddit app once and then see more real reddit results?

Re: The next Google

#254

I think 'more customization' which is a theme with a lot of these alternatives is a fundamental dead end. I don't know where this persistent myth comes from that people love choice and tinkering, because they clearly don't. There's a huge cost associated with having to make choices, and one feature of successful modern apps is that they're frictionless. That's why TikTok is so successful. There's no login, no user ch…

There's a book I love to send people: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001REFRZG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect (old school. no kindle. just hardcover. :) ) "Something Really New" How innovation works. First question in the book is: you need to come up with a new idea for a faucet company. Customer research says: Users want lots of variety in their faucets. Everyone then immediately comes up with the same exact ideas: faucets that are easily customizable. Faucets that have skins. Etc.

When really innovative stuff is just about removing steps. If a process has 10 steps, remove as many as you can, and now you have something truly innovative on your hands.

I feel like Google did exactly that. Pre Google steps: search for XYZ, wait, check first link, second link, spam, spam, check next page. Post Google: search for XYZ, get XYZ.

Re: The next Google

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There used to be a search engine in the mid 2000s that was just like this. It was called ChaCha: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChaCha_(search_engine)

Yep. That was the idea. 'voice assistants' came along, smart phones took off, and cell speeds became fast enough to make ChaCha untenable. Source: worked at ChaCha.

Wow where did you go after! AskJeeves?

Re: The next Google

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really good in some ways, and very lacking (for me) in others. The search is fine. Good enough that I would switch. However, if I was out and about and quickly needed directions to Walmart, my normal flow with Google is Pull out phone -> Safari -> type "Walmart" -> click on the map -> Maps app opens and starts guiding me When I switched to Kagi, the flow went like Pull out phone -> Safari -> type "Walmart" -> to…

We found similar issues at https://you.com a while back. We just had to be good for more query families. Now we have both the walmart locations in a map app, eg https://you.com/search?q=walmart and coding related useful results, eg. https://you.com/search?q=how%20do%20I%20find%20all%20files%2... or https://you.com/search?q=pyspark%20filter%20array%20element

Too bad you.com does not work in Firefox with the "beacon" function disabled (beacon.enabled set to false in about:config).

Re: The next Google

#258
post #201
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why TikTok is so successful. More likely, it exploits human's cognitive weaknesses successfully with a simple way. It learns how how people get their dopamine dose. And there is no going back. You need more and more, more extreme content. More polarization. All you need to do is to open app and get that dose. Is it the same for search engine? And people make more crazy stuff to get views. How this ends? Not…

I don’t think it is fair when we frame products as being objectively and consciously nefarious in this way. Conjuring images of executives rubbing their hands together, giddy with enjoyment that the war is leading to more exciting content. These are firms that are meeting a legitimate need- and that’s the need to feel connected. Tik-tok provides that, and very effectively. Plenty of people get genuine enjoyment out o…

Maybe it is not fair, but that is what happens and eventually it is acknowledged by executives, which leads for new design decisions based on that on TikTok and other platforms to get more money and users.

I don't think they fulfill some gap of the need of feeling of connected in a real way. More like a bandage. We have seen the development of Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram. Their audience is fading on countries who have used them longer time, what went wrong? How is TikTok so good that they try to adapt it on their platforms as well? No way to connect?

Short video clips which might or might not lead for a real conversation. They might offer escape from reality in your lunch break at work.

I understand the perspective of "feeling connected". It brings people together with similar mindsets on entertaining way. Or at least people who seems to enjoy similar things.

On the contrary, is it different than some oldschool cults or religions? Cults which are using psychology writings as base for feeling mutual understanding of themselves. Or religions which share same ideologies and use it as a solution for their problems?

Technology is advancing, is TikTok a modern solution for finding your role and place in the world when it does not make sense and you feel you are alone with your thoughts? Maybe it is, maybe it then fills some gap.

I agree that TikTok is providing entertainment (well, that is what dopamine usually is). It is easier to hook people on short videos which are done by global audience versus Netflix where there is a limited amount of material and they cost a lot to make, when audience on TikTok is mostly making them free and you just pick suitable ones with your algorithms for showing the other audience.

However, there are many problems in this. How it can be abused and how it creates people living on their own bubble, like people on some extreme Facebook groups. When a narrative includes only content that boosts your own thoughts, a reality can be lost. We need some research on this matter, but for some reason social media companies are doing their best to prevent that.

Someone people also really get addicted on the entertainment and cannot stop using it. Well, same thing can apply also for alcohol, but is addiction risk closer to opiates for example?

I don't really believe that executives are thinking for the best of the people, so optimizing platforms to hook users is a quite dangerous play.

Re: The next Google

#259
post #254

I think 'more customization' which is a theme with a lot of these alternatives is a fundamental dead end. I don't know where this persistent myth comes from that people love choice and tinkering, because they clearly don't. There's a huge cost associated with having to make choices, and one feature of successful modern apps is that they're frictionless. That's why TikTok is so successful. There's no login, no user ch…

There's a book I love to send people: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001REFRZG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect (old school. no kindle. just hardcover. :) ) "Something Really New" How innovation works. First question in the book is: you need to come up with a new idea for a faucet company. Customer research says: Users want lots of variety in their faucets. Everyone then immediately comes up with the same exact ideas: faucets that…

eh... except google is now basically just the pre-google product: Search for XYZ, wait, skip promoted link, skip second promoted link, third promoted link is actually the direct competitor to what I fucking searched, click result that was on top ten years ago, but is now almost below the fold.

Or worse - Search for exact term: get a page full of "Missing X - must include X" links hidden in tiny text below a result, click "Must include X" get the SAME FUCKING RESULTS again, click tools, click the dropdown, select verbatim, finally see decent results

Re: The next Google

#260
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why TikTok is so successful. More likely, it exploits human's cognitive weaknesses successfully with a simple way. It learns how how people get their dopamine dose. And there is no going back. You need more and more, more extreme content. More polarization. All you need to do is to open app and get that dose. Is it the same for search engine? And people make more crazy stuff to get views. How this ends? Not…

>You need more and more, more extreme content. More polarization. This seems a little sensational. Many people (myself and most of my friends included) don't see _any_ "extreme" content or polarization. A quick scroll through my feed is largely nothing but magnet fishing, frog tracking, cats, DIY projects, and geologists talking about rocks. It's enjoyable and arguably a dopamine dose on-demand, but not necessarily a…

I agree that it is a little sensational, as it happens mostly when you like only limited groups of things. It gets harder for algorithms to polarize if you "mess up" with the algorithm and like many different kind of things.

To clarify, I don't mean with "extreme" necessarily a bad things, just content which gives you "extreme" emotions.

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