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One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

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Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#241

Post by Symbiote »

d0mine wrote: post #231
yywwbbn wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the alternative be if US banned all independent media sources (like Russia did)?

unrelated: could you name one just one US media source that you consider to be independent (with an anti-war article where US is perpetrator).

You have changed the question.

Russia has banned foreign media, in addition to restricting local media to publishing the government view.

Since I'm British, and you'd probably consider the US and UK equivalent for this purpose, here's a major British newspaper article arguing against NATO action in Libya: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/mar/23/nothin...

(Given https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_US, it probably counts for the US anyway.)

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#242

Post by Zanfa »

d0mine wrote: post #236
older wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you consider pro-Ukrainian media? The BBC?

If you consider that the Ukrainian conflict is a war between US and Russia, then yes all western media are pro-Ukrainian (it serves US interests at the moment).

It's not though, so your point is irrelevant.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#243

Post by goldenchrome »

bacan wrote: post #219

This is exactly what happens when algorithms tailor what people see on their newsfeed. They will push narratives. One of the main reasons I prefer Reddit is the existence of r/All. Provides a very balanced view

If you think Reddit isn’t highly curated too, you’re wrong. Perhaps you could make that argument 10 years ago but no longer. In the last few years Reddit has taken on hundreds of millions of dollars of funding to morph the site into a more mainstream advertiser-friendly offering. They’ve silenced lots of controversial communities by outright banning them or neutered them with “quarantines”. Over the years, Reddit has succeeded at pushing out people who don’t have palatable opinions and retained a core base of advertiser-friendly true believers. “Advertiser-friendly” in the contemporary era means “left-leaning with no reservations“. This is about the furthest thing you can get from a “balanced view”.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#245

Post by ajross »

verisimi wrote: post #230
ajross wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Content moderation is de facto censorship. It simply is not. And the proof is that you can see in this very thread a bunch of flagged, dead comments that are still visible, still citable, and (importantly) whose posters are not guilty of crimes for their creation. I'm sorry, but no. Difficulty of finding information is not the same thing as censorship. And we have to stop pretending that it is. > Do you remember wh…

I'm sorry, yes. If major platforms de-platform you, in a co-ordinated fashion that's not censorship? This is all works on account of corporate policies - not law. Law would dictate that unless what was said was illegal, that a person had a right to say it. Which is supportive of the fact that we are living in a fascist (corporate + governance) system. That the legal system is now a joke.

> If major platforms de-platform you, in a co-ordinated fashion that's not censorship?

Not in a world where you can continue to post on Infowars or 4chan or reddit or HN or wherever instead, no. Why would it be? You really don't see the difference? In Russia, it is illegal to report on international perspectives about events in Ukraine. That content doesn't exist, and you can't link to it without committing a crime (and, likely, also using a ban evasion tool like a VPN).

Do you have an example of an idea or perspective (even one!) that is being suppressed by "major platforms" in a "co-ordinated fashion" that I won't be able to refute with a simple link as I did above?

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#246

Post by pydry »

willeh wrote: post #188
qiskit wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NRK is Norway’s equivalent to the BBC. Which is britain's equivalent to RT?

If you think the BBC is anything like RT you ought to read about the BBCs reporting during the Falklands War.

Britain's transition to becoming more like a British RT happened post Iraq/David Kelly/Hutton Inquiry and even then it happened fairly slowly - it took time to pension off all the good journalists who asked the difficult questions.

The BBC under Greg Dyke and Gavyn Davies was fiercely independent and objective though, until they were unceremoniously let go for not towing the party line on Iraq's WMDs.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#247

Post by globalise83 »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #191
pjc50 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't see 80km from the ground, and it's on the other side of a closed international border and the war itself . Residents of Belgorod can have little to no idea what's happening in Kharkiv other than the news. Well, that and the gigantic explosion of the local oil depot. Heck, in many places around the world people get most local news from social media apps.

Seriously? Imagine an alternate universe where Canada and USA went to war. Do you really think that people in Seattle would have to depend on German social media apps to figure out what goes on in Vancouver while it's being bombed? Seriously?

Think about North v. South Korea: neither side really has the slightest clue how the other lives. If there were a famine or coup in North Korea no-one would have a clue except through the reports of spies.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#248

Post by stefanfisk »

d0mine wrote: post #231
yywwbbn wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the alternative be if US banned all independent media sources (like Russia did)?

unrelated: could you name one just one US media source that you consider to be independent (with an anti-war article where US is perpetrator).

https://www.democracynow.org has plenty.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#249

Post by qiskit »

KarlKemp wrote: post #214
qiskit wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NRK is Norway’s equivalent to the BBC. Which is britain's equivalent to RT?

That’s the sort of cynicism RT want you to adopt, yes.

My opinion of the BBC was formed long before RT even existed. One is a government funded state propagandist. The other is RT. RT emulates BBC as do a lot of state propagandists around the world. All RT and other state propagandists like CGTN, al jazeera, etc does is copy the BBC. It's because the BBC is the best at propaganda. It sets the bar that other state propagandists aspire to.

It isn't by accident George Orwell modeled the Ministry of Truth after the BBC. After all he worked as a propagandist for the BBC during ww2.

You truly have to be brainwashed to believe that the BBC is any different from RT. Just gotta tip your hat to the BBC. They do a good job.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#250

Post by user3939382 »

older wrote: post #228
user3939382 wrote: post #101

My position is that Russia's Article 51 legal justification for the invasion is a stretch at best, but that the US policy of unnecessary, aggressive NATO expansion [1] baited Putin into this war whereas he was very clear Ukrainian NATO membership was a red line for him. We also made no effort to encourage Ukraine to honor the Minsk accords which would have almost certainly prevented this. If Mexico was hostile and Ru…

> he was very clear Ukrainian NATO membership was a red line for him No, he wasn't. That's just another bullshit excuse manufactured to justify this criminal invasion. Here, read it from the man himself: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/21598

> No, he wasn't

The Hill, April 2021 "Putin draws a ‘red line’ on Ukraine, and he means it"

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/550036-putin-draws...

The Ukrainian Weekly, June 2021 "Following summit, Kremlin says NATO membership for Ukraine would be a ‘red line’"

https://www.ukrweekly.com/uwwp/following-summit-kremlin-says...

Reuters, September 2021 "Kremlin says NATO expansion in Ukraine is a 'red line' for Putin"

https://www.reuters.com/world/kremlin-says-nato-expansion-uk...

ABC News, November 2021 "Putin warns West: Moscow has 'red line' about Ukraine, NATO"

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/putin-warns-w...

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