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One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

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Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#221

Post by stickfigure »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #191
pjc50 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't see 80km from the ground, and it's on the other side of a closed international border and the war itself . Residents of Belgorod can have little to no idea what's happening in Kharkiv other than the news. Well, that and the gigantic explosion of the local oil depot. Heck, in many places around the world people get most local news from social media apps.

Seriously? Imagine an alternate universe where Canada and USA went to war. Do you really think that people in Seattle would have to depend on German social media apps to figure out what goes on in Vancouver while it's being bombed? Seriously?

If, in this alternate universe, Americans have no free press and live in fear of men with guns showing up on their doorstep and hauling them away, then - sure? Where else would they get news?

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#222

Post by asveikau »

hermannj314 wrote: post #193

Aggressor nations have the privilege of lying to themselves on the consequences and reality of their wars. The defenders do not get the privilege to ignore that. Americans barely talked about Afghanistan. For 20 years, our internet was full of funny videos, stupid songs, and memes of Osama bin Laden. Sure we bombed civilians targets and committed war crimes too, but we had very smart lawyers that taught us clever wor…

On the other hand...

I was really against the Iraq war and nobody ever threatened me with 15 years of jail for it.

The architects of that conflict left when term limits were up. (Putin did not.)

Don't get me wrong, Iraq was pointless. Afghanistan seemed to have a justification at the start but was mismanaged early on. In terms of culture, wide swaths of the population were brainwashed in a similar way to how we talk about Russia now, though with a little more vocal opposition. But what I can say is there is room in the American system for course correction.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#223

Post by krapp »

verisimi wrote: post #217
ajross wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An important distinction is that if I want to find foreign spin in the west, I can do so trivially and legally and share it with anyone I want. And the worst punishment I will see is a downvote. The core claim in the liked article isn't about content moderation, it's about censorship. And it's really upsetting to see the extent to which HN commenters want to conflate them.

Content moderation is de facto censorship. If someone is sharing a honestly held opinion, not threatening anyone - that should be allowed. You seem to be unaware of the level of censorship that goes on here, youtube, twitter, etc, etc. It is called breaking community guidelines, de-platforming, shadow banning, hate-speech, etc. Do you remember when Alex Jones was removed from everywhere in a couple of days? Regardles…

>Do you remember when Alex Jones was removed from everywhere in a couple of days? Regardless of what you think, should he be allowed a voice?

Alex Jones has a voice, it just isn't on mainstream platforms.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#224

Post by older »

soheil wrote: post #167

What is ironic is surely the dancing video mentioned and not that a publicly funded Norwegian government-owned media, NRK, (Jens Stoltenberg from Norway is the head of Nato) publishes a hit piece on TikTok all the while ignoring what FB, Twitter and many other social media have been doing to people in their own counties including the US for years. Very convenient.

You clearly have no idea what are you talking about. Here's what NRK has published about Facebook: https://nrkbeta.no/?s=F facebook Feel free to search for articles about other social media.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#225

Post by megous »

user3939382 wrote: post #168
kcb wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your perspective is the same tired idea that the US is the only country that controls world foreign policy and everyone else just plays along. What of the Ukrainian people?

Here's the US government explicitly picking the leaders of the Ukrainian government before they were put in place https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 Not to mention that leading up to this transition of power we backed a violent coup of their democratically elected government in 2014. What of the Ukrainian people in Eastern Ukraine who have been getting bombed for 7 years in a civil war? The Ukrainian peop…

> What of the Ukrainian people in Eastern Ukraine who have been getting bombed for 7 years in a civil war?

What about them, exactly?

https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/5...

There was a major decrease in ceasefire violations in 2020 and 2021. Looks like to Russia that sounded like it's time to escalate and fix "the problem" whatever that is, by starting a major war and invading straight to Kyiv of all places. I'm sure poor people of Donbas will benefit greatly from a major escalation caused by Russia, that's going to reverse all this. Whole year of reported civilian casualties by OSCE now happen in a day.

> The Ukrainian people through their government agreed to the Minsk accords which would have prevented this but were then never honored.

Why OSCE SMM observations of agreement violating weapons are consistenly much higher in the separatist areas, by a large margin? (80/20 or so)

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#226

Post by [deleted] »

sdfhbdf wrote: post #4

This article is well made and uncovers very interesting thing. I love how it was technically put together, browsing it on mobile was a great experience, chapeaux bas, i love how great new formats are available to publishers in the digital era outside of serving autoplaying ads. On thing that caught my attention was the supposed USCentric approach since it counted a distance in miles. I also wonder whether it was tran…

[deleted]

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#227

Post by ajross »

verisimi wrote: post #217
ajross wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An important distinction is that if I want to find foreign spin in the west, I can do so trivially and legally and share it with anyone I want. And the worst punishment I will see is a downvote. The core claim in the liked article isn't about content moderation, it's about censorship. And it's really upsetting to see the extent to which HN commenters want to conflate them.

Content moderation is de facto censorship. If someone is sharing a honestly held opinion, not threatening anyone - that should be allowed. You seem to be unaware of the level of censorship that goes on here, youtube, twitter, etc, etc. It is called breaking community guidelines, de-platforming, shadow banning, hate-speech, etc. Do you remember when Alex Jones was removed from everywhere in a couple of days? Regardles…

> Content moderation is de facto censorship.

It simply is not. And the proof is that you can see in this very thread a bunch of flagged, dead comments that are still visible, still citable, and (importantly) whose posters are not guilty of crimes for their creation.

I'm sorry, but no. Difficulty of finding information is not the same thing as censorship. And we have to stop pretending that it is.

> Do you remember when Alex Jones was removed from everywhere in a couple of days?

Nope, actually I don't. But interestingly: I absolutely know that Alex Jones' rhetoric is still pervasively accessible to anyone who wants to hear it. Here's his site, if you're having trouble finding it due to all the, ahem, "censorship": https://www.infowars.com/

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#228

Post by older »

user3939382 wrote: post #101

My position is that Russia's Article 51 legal justification for the invasion is a stretch at best, but that the US policy of unnecessary, aggressive NATO expansion [1] baited Putin into this war whereas he was very clear Ukrainian NATO membership was a red line for him. We also made no effort to encourage Ukraine to honor the Minsk accords which would have almost certainly prevented this. If Mexico was hostile and Ru…

> he was very clear Ukrainian NATO membership was a red line for him

No, he wasn't. That's just another bullshit excuse manufactured to justify this criminal invasion. Here, read it from the man himself: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/21598

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#229

Post by verisimi »

krapp wrote: post #223
verisimi wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Content moderation is de facto censorship. If someone is sharing a honestly held opinion, not threatening anyone - that should be allowed. You seem to be unaware of the level of censorship that goes on here, youtube, twitter, etc, etc. It is called breaking community guidelines, de-platforming, shadow banning, hate-speech, etc. Do you remember when Alex Jones was removed from everywhere in a couple of days? Regardles…

>Do you remember when Alex Jones was removed from everywhere in a couple of days? Regardless of what you think, should he be allowed a voice? Alex Jones has a voice, it just isn't on mainstream platforms.

Is that not effectively censorship?

Do you remember when Trump was banned from Twitter?!?

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#230

Post by verisimi »

ajross wrote: post #227
verisimi wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Content moderation is de facto censorship. If someone is sharing a honestly held opinion, not threatening anyone - that should be allowed. You seem to be unaware of the level of censorship that goes on here, youtube, twitter, etc, etc. It is called breaking community guidelines, de-platforming, shadow banning, hate-speech, etc. Do you remember when Alex Jones was removed from everywhere in a couple of days? Regardles…

> Content moderation is de facto censorship. It simply is not. And the proof is that you can see in this very thread a bunch of flagged, dead comments that are still visible, still citable, and (importantly) whose posters are not guilty of crimes for their creation. I'm sorry, but no. Difficulty of finding information is not the same thing as censorship. And we have to stop pretending that it is. > Do you remember wh…

I'm sorry, yes.

If major platforms de-platform you, in a co-ordinated fashion that's not censorship?

This is all works on account of corporate policies - not law. Law would dictate that unless what was said was illegal, that a person had a right to say it.

Which is supportive of the fact that we are living in a fascist (corporate + governance) system. That the legal system is now a joke.

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