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China Frets: Innovators Stymied Here

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Re: China Frets: Innovators Stymied Here

#21

Post by jerf »

Volpe wrote: post #17
drieddust wrote: post #2

Asians are slowly realizing that culture of conformity is not going to work anymore.

They are? That's why they are the ones holding all the money while the "non-conformers" drown in debt.

No, they're drowning in debt issues too. Google "China debt" and you'll get an earful, one example: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/23/why-china-s... If you don't like that one pick your own.

Nobody got out of the last decade unscathed, China just covered it up better. Nobody's getting out of this one unscathed, either.

Re: China Frets: Innovators Stymied Here

#22

Post by sliverstorm »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #15
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #14

As someone who is very conflicted about the IP laws in the US, it is interesting how many of the comments focus on the problems no IP protection causes.

Well there's subtle but important differences between patents in general, and patents as they have been abused regarding software. There's also copyright and trade secrets. Namely, if someone swipes your code here in the US, and you can prove it, it's considered pretty trivial to bring them to court. This apparently not the case in China. My take on software patents is that they aren't analogous to real-world enginee…

Spot-on. In the general case, patents do appear to serve their purpose in the US. It is not a perfect system, (see: software patents) but it is without a doubt superior to a total lack of IP protection.

Re: China Frets: Innovators Stymied Here

#23

Post by zizee »

hahaonlysirius wrote: post #19
thinkcomp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right: I do object to the law's passing, to the entities that have been documented to be backing the law (see http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_2751-2800/ab... ; the members of The Money Services Round Table are clarified at http://www.federalreserve.gov/SECRS/2006/August/20060829/R-1... ), to its constitutionality, and to its implementation. That doesn't mean that I "have decided not to comply w…

Let's be clear: the multi-billion dollar financial corporations didn't shut you down. The state did. They're the ones with the guns.

The financial corporations are the ones with the lobbyists.

Re: China Frets: Innovators Stymied Here

#24

Post by hahaonlysirius »

zizee wrote: post #23
hahaonlysirius wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be clear: the multi-billion dollar financial corporations didn't shut you down. The state did. They're the ones with the guns.

The financial corporations are the ones with the lobbyists.

Personally, I would rather be lobbied than shot.

Re: China Frets: Innovators Stymied Here

#25

Post by dantheman »

sliverstorm wrote: post #22
lambdasquirrel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there's subtle but important differences between patents in general, and patents as they have been abused regarding software. There's also copyright and trade secrets. Namely, if someone swipes your code here in the US, and you can prove it, it's considered pretty trivial to bring them to court. This apparently not the case in China. My take on software patents is that they aren't analogous to real-world enginee…

Spot-on. In the general case, patents do appear to serve their purpose in the US. It is not a perfect system, (see: software patents) but it is without a doubt superior to a total lack of IP protection.

How is it without a doubt superior? There are cases where innovation only takes off after the patent has expired. We don't know what the world would look like without IP protection, it may be better it may be worse but we just don't know.

Re: China Frets: Innovators Stymied Here

#26

Post by rblackwater »

Volpe wrote: post #18
briandear wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely correct. Just getting a business license in China takes a bribe and months of red stamping. Innovation is crushed in China mainly because of the IP laws (or ignoring thereof.)

> Just getting a business license in China takes a bribe and months of red stamping. Do you have any evidence of this? From my time in china, I see a massive entrepreneur spirit. In fact everyone I spoke to was starting a business of some kind. What colour stamps do you use in the U.S? Are they somehow superior to red ones? > Innovation is crushed in China mainly because of the IP laws (or ignoring thereof.) Any evid…

Who were you speaking to? I just recently managed to convince my (Chinese) wife that trying and failing her own online business would be better than working as someone's slave in an industry she doesn't even like. And our friends here are too busy trying to live on the small monthly salaries they get to even consider taking a risk with a startup.

...let alone the fact if you have a successful internet startup, someone with more resources will make a carbon copy of it and there's not much you can do to shut it down.

Re: China Frets: Innovators Stymied Here

#28

Post by chaostheory »

Volpe wrote: post #17
drieddust wrote: post #2

Asians are slowly realizing that culture of conformity is not going to work anymore.

They are? That's why they are the ones holding all the money while the "non-conformers" drown in debt.

That has little to do with creativity, and more to do with frugality.

Re: China Frets: Innovators Stymied Here

#29

Post by Volpe »

rblackwater wrote: post #26
Volpe wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just getting a business license in China takes a bribe and months of red stamping. Do you have any evidence of this? From my time in china, I see a massive entrepreneur spirit. In fact everyone I spoke to was starting a business of some kind. What colour stamps do you use in the U.S? Are they somehow superior to red ones? > Innovation is crushed in China mainly because of the IP laws (or ignoring thereof.) Any evid…

Who were you speaking to? I just recently managed to convince my (Chinese) wife that trying and failing her own online business would be better than working as someone's slave in an industry she doesn't even like. And our friends here are too busy trying to live on the small monthly salaries they get to even consider taking a risk with a startup. ...let alone the fact if you have a successful internet startup, someon…

... are you seriously positing it is "too hard" to start a business in China (the fastest growing economy in the world)?

> let alone the fact if you have a successful internet startup, someone with more resources will make a carbon copy of it and there's not much you can do to shut it down.

Because that never happens in the U.S? I can think of a number of examples just off the top of my head. But I'm worried I'm confusing your point.

Re: China Frets: Innovators Stymied Here

#30

Post by Volpe »

chaostheory wrote: post #28
Volpe wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are? That's why they are the ones holding all the money while the "non-conformers" drown in debt.

That has little to do with creativity, and more to do with frugality.

I never said it did, but why would they "realise it isn't going to work"... when it has up until now?
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