I wish there could be some shopping platform that respects their employees even if my order takes 3 weeks to land.
Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
331–340 of 476 posts
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#332[deleted]
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unchecked greed, that's how.
Stop giving them money ostensibly by not using sites on their platforms, get your friends to do the same. Greed must be fed otherwise it is just idle hunger.
I don't give "them" money. I don't buy there, but that doesn't solve the problem. Governments (all over the world) need to protect worker's rights, consumer right's and the environment much better through legislation and supervision, as in good, old-fashioned social democracy.
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I wouldn't say that coders as an industry are destroying the road behind us I agree, in fact I would argue the total opposite. Has any industry/skill group in history put so much effort in to getting more people involved than the software industry has?
I’m not sure it supports the point you’re rebutting, but my immediate thought was the military. The draft, shooting deserters, press-gangs, etc.
Hah possibly a different definition of "getting involved" than intended! Upvoted.
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#335Earlier quoted context omitted.
> skip FAANG’s 300k salaries and still do fine with 180k at a more ethical company. Those people are responsible. they are ethical, or altruistic, but certainly can't claim they are financially responsible. If they don't have dependents (now or in the future), then they can remain financially irresponsible, because it will have little effect. But if they plan on having dependents such as children, they will need the…
Taking a job that screws over workers below you is really just sticking a middle finger up to the world around you. A typical programming job is more than enough to provide for a family, a home, and early retirement. Burning down the next generation by empowering mega corporations just "for your kids" is the definition of selfish. Boomers did selfish things "for their kids" and now their kids are absolutely screwed w…
Don't be silly; it's not at the cost of the whole world.
We are still in a pandemic where one of the biggest reasons people could isolate for as long as they did was big tech.
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#336Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Personal and corporate interests will always trump community interests. People _are_ responsible for the choices they make _and_ the entities they choose to empower… Anyhow… I’ve known engineers that have chosen community over themselves… Regardless, you’re on HN, fortunately you don’t have to make that choice. Instead you can skip FAANG toxicity and join a startup “community” that aligns with your values. Even bet…
This is another transfer of responsibility from the government to the citizen. Same as carbon footprint being used to guilt trip the individual who cannot stop global warming. No matter how many engineers quit or refuse to apply to Amazon they will always have a replacement. The solution for both climate change and Amazon is government intervention. Be it subsidies for Solar or regulatory fines for Amazon.
Phrasing this as a "transfer" is begging the question; it can't be a transfer if the responsibility is not decided. The word "responsibility" is also a moral conundrum, not an objective one, which gums up the works in terms of finding a good solution. People can bikeshed morals all day.
A clearer way to think of it is in terms of people who have the power to change the situation:
- Governments can issue fines, but this is unlikely to harm the corporate enough to make it change. It can win votes though, so it does happen.
- Governments can write regulations, but this is done sparingly because of all the unintended consequences of adding any regulations to any industry. Also, a common (intended, by the incumbents) consequence of regulations is adding ones that disadvantage new participants in a market.
- People can choose to change the company from the inside, or not work for the company. This can work quite well if changes are encouraged from various levels, but that's not common.
- People can choose to not use the company (e.g. not to shop at Amazon).
The second and fourth are the most powerful options, with the fourth being the very most powerful.
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#337> The major goal of the program, Amazon’s head of worldwide consumer business, Dave Clark, said, was to reduce employee attrition by fostering happiness among workers — and also productivity. Shout-Outs would be part of a gamified rewards system in which employees are awarded virtual stars and badges for activities that “add direct business value,” documents state. At the meeting, Clark remarked that “some people are…
> I cannot imagine anyone here seriously defending this unless you’re just looking to be a contrarian. HN has a large libertarian base who are against regulated unions. They are seen as bad government interference in the free enterprise system. I don't want to start an argument but there's a lot of economics science that supports that belief.
You still have to get from "unions are bad" to "union discussion should be censored".
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wouldn't say that coders as an industry are destroying the road behind us, since there isn't really a road between "warehouse worker" and "software engineer", unless someone has the knack for coding (in which case there's a very clear and well-paved road within the company between those roles) I think the best solution is to empower workers via unions or whatever else. It should be impossible for workers to get gro…
Massive salaries for programmers won’t last forever. Most people here on HN are self-taught; it’s a skill a large number of motivated people can pick up. Eventually, large corporations will feel comfortable lowering wages once they have a secure grip on the market, and the tools programmers today made will be used against the next generation. It’s no different from millennials resenting boomers for burning economic b…
> and the tools programmers today made will be used against the next generation
You're making me like C all over again.
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#339Earlier quoted context omitted.
What kind of libertarianism? Afaik left-libertarianism is in favour of unions. If it's right-libertarianism you're referencing then can you share some of the "economics science" that promotes it?
"Left" libertarianism is an oxymoron. Any philosophy that prioritises the collective over the individual is inherently illiberal.
The left vs right dichotomy doesn't have too much to do with collectivism vs individualism. For example, social conservatism is a right wing idea, but it is highly collectivistic (prioritizing social mores over individual freedom).
Left libertarianism typically means free market economics + democratically organized and owned workplaces + social libertarianism (free love, free religion, free drugs etc). Right libertarianism is similar, but emphasizes contractualism instead of democratic control.
Left libertarians typically scoff for example at corporations for their limitations on the personal freedoms of the workers, viewing it as a form of slavery.
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#340Please keep in mind this is a rewards program text box, not a chat app. The program itself may be stupid, but I don't know any company that would allow these terms in internally visible recognition. My company uses manual review for recognition, but I would expect a call from my manager if I sent a public kudos "Great job fighting for union pay raises for the slave labor at our company"
Honestly banning words just seems incompetent.
It's horrible PR. Will the achived effect be worth it? I doubt that.