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Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

theintercept.com

301–310 of 476 posts

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just jr devs that should be acting in solidarity with warehouse workers. Their team leads, IT, project managers, etc. I don’t care how much amazon stock you’re getting as part of your comp, until the capital gains on your stock outpaces your salary you’re closer to a warehouse worker than you are to an owner - and your allegiances should be with your coworkers, not jeff. So yeah, this specific case might hav…

Ok. Preventing a coworker from calling another a “slut”, “motherfucker”, “fag”, or “n####r” seems like a pretty reasonable feature for a workplace chat system. Lacking such a system might even constitute creating or contributing to a hostile workplace environment. What’s the level of dev who should show allegiance to fellow coworkers by refusing to implement that? Then some non-dev employee realizes you can block the…

And then some dev can accidentally roll back the changes as part of a bug fix.

Actually we’re having problems with the whole filtering system, it turns out it relies on a library that has some security vulnerabilities and it’s no longer operational.

Or if you must, wait until it breaks on its own, and then refuse to fix it. “Suppressing labour organizing isn’t part of my job description”

I.e. Grow a spine and stand up for what’s right

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#302
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Hannah Arendt's thesis behind "the banality of evil"[1]: > Arendt found Eichmann an ordinary, rather bland, bureaucrat, who in her words, was ‘neither perverted nor sadistic’, but ‘terrifyingly normal’. He acted without any motive other than to diligently advance his career. Eichmann was not an amoral monster, she concluded in her study of the case. Instead, he performed evil deeds without evil intentions, a…

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Empty comment.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existing government mandates - aka "laws" - exist as a compromise. They prohibit a company like Amazon from engaging in certain practices, and in exchange, some union practices are prohibited. I'm fine with dismantling all laws limiting corporate interactions SO LONG AS all laws limiting unions are similarly lifted. Get rid of Taft-Hartley, and bring back "jurisdictional strikes, wildcat strikes, solidarity or po…

>>The existing government mandates - aka "laws" - exist as a compromise. They prohibit a company like Amazon from engaging in certain practices, and in exchange, some union practices are prohibited. There is nothing of note that unions could do, that isn't enabled by contract-liberty-violating labor regulations and wouldn't break the law. Picketing Amazon's premises, and beating up replacement workers, as the illegal…

Speaking of precursors, your own citation [17] points out the dead strikebreaker was found AFTER company guards had used the machine gun on the Death Special to kill a miner and injure two kids.

] Through various agencies the company was able to hire men to take a more aggressive stance against the striking workers, armed guards were supplied to harass strikers and union organisers. An armoured car with a mounted machine gun was even built which was appropriately named the ‘Death Special’ by the company guards. As tensions escalated between CF+I and the strikers, miners dug protective pits beneath their tents to shield themselves and their families against random sniping and machine gun fire from the company guards. On October 17th the ‘Death Special’ was used to attack the Forbes tent colony resulting in the death of one miner. A young girl was shot in the face and another boy’s legs riddled with machine gun bullets also. Confrontations between striking miners and scab workers were also resulting in additional deaths. On October 28th the Governor of Colorado, Elias M Ammons called out the National Guard to take control of the situation.

] The miners however, persevered. Union members and organisers were kidnapped and beaten, shots being fired into the camps from strike-breakers and the National Guardsmen were a constant occurrence and the harsh winter was taking its toll. Worried about the continuing cost of keeping the National Guard in the field, Governor Ammons accepted an offer from the Rockefeller family to put their men in National Guard uniforms.

] On March 10th the body of a strike-breaker was found near railroad tracks near the Forbes tents and the National Guard’s General Chase ordered the colony to be destroyed. The strike was reaching a climax, and National Guardsmen were ordered to evict the remaining tent colonies around the mines, despite them being on private property leased by the UMWA.

] Ludlow was the largest of the colonies, and on the morning of April 20th 1914, troops fired into the camp with machine guns, anyone who was seen moving in the camp was targeted. The miners fired back, and fighting raged for almost fourteen hours.

The mine owners were an even more violent force, also engaging in aggression. The Pinkerton detective agency is still prohibited by law from doing business with the government of the United States or of the District of Columbia.

> any response is a "massacre".

It's been widely called the Ludlow Massacre for over a century.

Your putting words into my mouth means you would rather use personal attacks than talk about the real issue, which is that the government laws are supposed to take the edge off both union AND corporate power.

If you take away laws that support union power without also taking away laws that prohibit otherwise legal union power, like the ability to negotiate for a closed shop, then you aren't actually in favor of contract liberty but of corporate power.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#305

> The major goal of the program, Amazon’s head of worldwide consumer business, Dave Clark, said, was to reduce employee attrition by fostering happiness among workers — and also productivity. Shout-Outs would be part of a gamified rewards system in which employees are awarded virtual stars and badges for activities that “add direct business value,” documents state. At the meeting, Clark remarked that “some people are…

If people are willing to completely pointless busy work in mobile and MMO games and paying through the nose to be zombified and gain virtual stars, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to do that in a virtual job (when they are being actually paid this)

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#306
post #6

It sounds like its an internal chat app, presumably meant for business. If people were openly talking about "slave labor" and "vaccine" on any public company slack channels, I would think they'd shut it down at most organizations. I don't think you're allowed to use company time to organize. I don't think its unreasonable to make people work when they're on the clock and remove distractions. Many are used to comforta…

> If people were openly talking about [....] "vaccine" on any public company slack channels, I would think they'd shut it down at most organizations

"I am getting my covid vaccine so im going to be out of office this afternoon"

"Did anyone else go to [location X] to get the vaccine, how fast were they? Was there a big line?"

Were both things that appeared on my work slack when the covid vaccines came out, and seem totally reasonable to me.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We aren't going to make children work in mines https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/nov/02/child-labor-laws... Are you sure about that? Absolutely certain?

How does an article about lifting allowed working hours for teenagers in a fast food joint equate to children working in coal mines?

Think about the law they are gonna pass next, its only 1 step away.

Also, as long as it's not a literal coalmine you see no risks to children? If it's a factory instead, then we are in the clear?

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#308

> The major goal of the program, Amazon’s head of worldwide consumer business, Dave Clark, said, was to reduce employee attrition by fostering happiness among workers — and also productivity. Shout-Outs would be part of a gamified rewards system in which employees are awarded virtual stars and badges for activities that “add direct business value,” documents state. At the meeting, Clark remarked that “some people are…

> I cannot imagine anyone here seriously defending this unless you’re just looking to be a contrarian. HN has a large libertarian base who are against regulated unions. They are seen as bad government interference in the free enterprise system. I don't want to start an argument but there's a lot of economics science that supports that belief.

What kind of libertarianism? Afaik left-libertarianism is in favour of unions. If it's right-libertarianism you're referencing then can you share some of the "economics science" that promotes it?

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#309

> The major goal of the program, Amazon’s head of worldwide consumer business, Dave Clark, said, was to reduce employee attrition by fostering happiness among workers — and also productivity. Shout-Outs would be part of a gamified rewards system in which employees are awarded virtual stars and badges for activities that “add direct business value,” documents state. At the meeting, Clark remarked that “some people are…

The scariest thing isn't that Amazon is a company worth nearly trillions and using that money to oppress workers to maintain their lead. It's that tech workers are happily applying to get a decent paycheck and crushing people under them, just to protect the company's billions. Then they'll post online about how happy they are to have been smart enough to save up to buy a lakefront home and retire at 45, and say peopl…

> FAANG workers are really entering and sometimes fully into "just following orders" territory. The lame social media posts from fellow tech workers about how things "should" be regulated gets tiresome. The real solution is to simply not work for them.

The thing is, Amazon, Walmart and fellow profiteers set up shop precisely where people have not much other choice than to work for them - in short, they set up shop in areas with somewhat decent traffic infrastructure, cheap real estate and lots of unemployment (and the latter two often come together).

So yes, the answer to the problem that is exploitative labor practices is government regulation, as it has been for the last two centuries.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#310
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're interested in maximum freedom of choice, didn't people clearly choose that unions are supported, in large enough numbers to get it written into lawbooks? Or are businesses somehow more free than people, so laws don't apply to them?

>>The Wikipedia entry for the NLRA specifically points out how it's meant to support contract liberty. I think you're confusing the freedom of the majority to repress the rights of the minority, with "contract freedom", i.e. the right to free assocation.

The right to free association and the right of the majority (power holders) to repress the minority (employees), yes.

And yes, I am in favor of limiting that. It has been used for many, many abuses through history. "Free association" really only exists when both sides have equal power, and oh boy is that not the case in most cases.

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