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Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

theintercept.com

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Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#81

Post by ashtonkem »

_dain_ wrote: post #78
edmundsauto wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a terrible analogy and adds nothing to the conversation. We aren't going to make children work in mines, because (as I'm sure you know), adult workers and children are not the same thing. There is a huge chasm between "adult workers making more than a lot of their other opportunities is slightly more cannot unionize as easily using Amazon services" and "put children back in coal mines".

>We aren't going to make children work in mines, because (as I'm sure you know), adult workers and children are not the same thing. once upon a time, this was not obvious. this modern moral axiom is a result of of hard-won labor organizing over the 19th century. all kinds of exploitative practices were justified with the exact same "the workers are being given an opportunity so they shouldn't complain" argument. it's…

In fact, most of the arguments by GP were also used by those defending now illegal labor practices, including child labor.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#82

Post by ClumsyPilot »

edmundsauto wrote: post #69
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they don’t have a better opportunity than seems like Amazon is providing a valuable opportunity. So when are we letting children back in the coalmines?

This is a terrible analogy and adds nothing to the conversation. We aren't going to make children work in mines, because (as I'm sure you know), adult workers and children are not the same thing. There is a huge chasm between "adult workers making more than a lot of their other opportunities is slightly more cannot unionize as easily using Amazon services" and "put children back in coal mines".

This is FinNerd's argumentation taken to it's logical conclusion - he is happy to sacrafice employee protections because X is the best employment avaliable.

They or you have not outlined where does this slippery slope stop, or ankowledged nessesity of employee protections.

I think you are still not seeing it, because the only protest from your 'but they are children!' - so if we exploit adults with a down's syndome, that's okay? Oh, so disabilities are protected, what if we spesifically target people who need money to pay for cancer treatment, and make them sign a waiver on safety equipment? I mean, they aren't gonna live long either way, it's a win-win!

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#84

Post by ars »

uncomputation wrote: post #49

> The major goal of the program, Amazon’s head of worldwide consumer business, Dave Clark, said, was to reduce employee attrition by fostering happiness among workers — and also productivity. Shout-Outs would be part of a gamified rewards system in which employees are awarded virtual stars and badges for activities that “add direct business value,” documents state. At the meeting, Clark remarked that “some people are…

> working their employees to death (literally in the case of the tornado)

According to people who live in the area this isn't true. Amazon's response to the tornado was what everyone in that area does.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#85

Post by ClumsyPilot »

heavyset_go wrote: post #77
FinNerd wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don’t their employees quit then and work somewhere better if they have the opportunity? If they don’t have a better opportunity than seems like Amazon is providing a valuable opportunity. Not to mention we seem to be in a worker-favorable economy.

Negotiations exist between two parties in a contractual relationship. Employment isn't a take it or leave it deal, it's give and take between two parties where terms of employment are decided by negotiations between both of them.

You mean like how I freely negotiate and accept the contract that describes CPUs backdoors (Intel Management Engine) in one of two computer CPU manufacturers in the world?

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#86

Post by mdorazio »

_dain_ wrote: post #70
FinNerd wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don’t their employees quit then and work somewhere better if they have the opportunity? If they don’t have a better opportunity than seems like Amazon is providing a valuable opportunity. Not to mention we seem to be in a worker-favorable economy.

"just quit and get another job" -- this is frictionless-plane-in-a-vacuum thinking. people have all kinds of life circumstances that means they can't act like perfectly rational economic agents, especially when they are poor. turn it around: why doesn't amazon just respect its worker's basic human dignity?

> why doesn't amazon just respect its worker's basic human dignity?

Because that directly conflicts with making the highest profit possible (still legally).

What’s sad in these discussions is that it’s both true that Amazon is a terrible employer and that it often pays more than alternatives for many workers. This seems like a failure of policy (ex. Enforcing living wage standards) and American business well-being at least as much as a failure of Amazon to “do the right thing.”

Edit: Cracks me up that I got downvoted for telling the truth about capitalism.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#88

Post by 8note »

walterclifford wrote: post #10
bko wrote: post #6

It sounds like its an internal chat app, presumably meant for business. If people were openly talking about "slave labor" and "vaccine" on any public company slack channels, I would think they'd shut it down at most organizations. I don't think you're allowed to use company time to organize. I don't think its unreasonable to make people work when they're on the clock and remove distractions. Many are used to comforta…

> I don't think you're allowed to use company time to organize True, but they can't be discriminatory in how they restrict communications. If they prohibit all non-work discussions on this app that appears to be fine - but not if they only restrict topics that are likely related to organizing. From https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/em... "Also, restrictions on your efforts to communicate with…

Pay raises sound work related to me

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#89

Post by nomilk »

We (community) should keep an open source database of what is banned. It would be insightful. For example any youtube comments mentioning "Open Street Maps" are automatically deleted ~30 seconds after commenting (very sneaky, the commenter might not even notice..).

Imagine what you could tell about a company by knowing what they don't allow their employees/users to talk about.

EDIT: also relevant, Paul Graham's essay What You Can't Say

http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#90

Post by jmyeet »

This is incredibly shortsighted and possibly illegal. There are limits to what companies can do to prevent or impede you from forming or joining a union. Amazon will need to tread very carefully here.

But why would anyone use the company's messaging app this way anyway? Wouldn't employees be safer just using Signal, Google Talk (or whatever it's called now), FB Messenger, WhatsApp or whatever? If not, won't moves like this drive employees to do just that?

We've had 40+ years of Reagonomics at this point, which have been a disaster for the lower and middle classes. It's about time we see the pendulum swing back the other way.

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