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Exit interviews are a trap

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Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#331

Post by iratewizard »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #190
throw1230 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you weren't meeting the needs of the company either and this is all sour grapes. If someone is not meeting the expectations or underperforming and it's not a character problem. I'd be open to working with them if they did some growing somewhere else. If however, you have this kind of attitude of blame-shifting and finger pointing without any substance to back it up, no one will want to work with you. Y…

"If however, you have this kind of attitude of blame-shifting and finger pointing" They asked him whether anything is wrong, they don't get to complain about the answer. On the other hand, for a senior person to go around town and spread rumours about a (presumably) junior team member is exactly the kind of behaviour I want nothing to do with. This comment is miopic, seems the closer you are to the top the less matur…

I once fired a Jr dev who lied about having done work and was generally being a salary thief. When I told him, he said he would work for free, it would never happen again, it was a misunderstanding and pleaded for his job. I told him no, so he went into the office crying to beg the founder for his job.

If someone were to ask me about hiring him, I would say in no uncertain terms that it's a mistake. I wonder, though, if he was telling his side of the story on HN, how I would have been painted as the villain.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#332

Post by analog31 »

throw1230 wrote: post #248
stavros wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except aroundtown expressed their opinion to HR when asked, and the boss went around badmouthing them around town. Only one of the two is the asshole here.

Nah man, exit interviews aren't to express opinions or talk shit, it's a data source for HR to identify problems emerging as patterns and improve their org/company. One guy saying "my boss sucked" isn't really feedback

For this to work, employees have to trust that they can be candid without repercussions. And employees don't have access to the inner workings of the business that they work for, but know that there are similarities across businesses. For this reason, the conduct of an exit interview is governed by the widespread behavior of similar businesses, as communicated by workers among one another, and not by the company. If things like exit interviews are widely abused, then they become useless.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#333

Post by l8rpeace »

briffle wrote: post #230
ghusto wrote: post #112

Good lord, what terrible advice. If anyone is reading this and thinking of adopting his ideas, please consider (with the exception being if you're still early in your career): 1) Being true to yourself is worth more than any of his purported wins 2) Be your own merit, and don't rely on others for references or goodwill 3) If every exit interviewee states that the CEO is a dick, that can't be ignored. She won't lose h…

In addition, if the last 6 developers all left because they got offers 30% more, maybe that will finally be the push to raise salaries for their current employees that are still there. Also, most places I have worked will not allow management to give more than the dates you worked, and if they would re-hire you again in a job reference. They are too scared of lawsuits..

Yeah not even that sometimes...dates of employment, title, broad responsibilities (she wasn't a gardner, she was a nuclear physicist). Anything else potentially implies judgment and is open to interpretation/libel. That's how I've been trained in scenarios for references.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#334

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

throw1230 wrote: post #248
stavros wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except aroundtown expressed their opinion to HR when asked, and the boss went around badmouthing them around town. Only one of the two is the asshole here.

Nah man, exit interviews aren't to express opinions or talk shit, it's a data source for HR to identify problems emerging as patterns and improve their org/company. One guy saying "my boss sucked" isn't really feedback

> it's a data source for HR to identify problems emerging as patterns

It's 100% CYA and nothing more. A performative act so the personnel department looks like it's serving the business and complying with labor laws.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#335

Post by Tiris »

MauranKilom wrote: post #313
fleddr wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my old man manual to life at work. Show up and do the work, consistently. Just this basic discipline puts you in the top 20% of performers, everywhere. Make your superiors look good and in any case, not bad. They don't care what you do for as long as you do this. This does not require sucking up, just deliver. Be reliable. Deliver on promises, likewise do not commit to a promise you can't fulfill and explain w…

> I refuse to do work that harms society, but other than that I'll gladly tell whoever in the office anything they want to hear if "that's how it works". So does that preclude work where telling your boss what they want to hear puts others at risk? Where along the scale of Chernobyl, Challenger disaster, medical implants, working on Facebook ads, writing enterprise grade Java, or creating eggbeater calibration routin…

I’ve had a similar approach, so I can give my take. You can read the advice cynically or genuinely, and either could be true. It depends on the organization. If you’re working somewhere that this can be taken at face value, you’ve got a good gig.

For me, I make sure I work in an industry that benefits society, and I make sure I work for a company that fits the spirit of bettering society. After that, a lot of the rest takes care of itself. Does that limit opportunities? Sure - it eliminates a number of government agencies and most publicly held companies. That still leaves a huge amount of space. By making sure I’m working somewhere with a clear mission I agree with, what makes the boss happy is likely to line up really well with what I’d want to do anyway.

Billing mistakes default to benefitting the customer, production incidents are as transparent as possible, consistent long term views on how to build a product and business (yes, you still cut corners when it makes sense, but you build a strong foundation to let yourself move really fast at the right times), etc.

Another benefit of consistently getting things done without drama - you end up with a lot of autonomy. When you see something that needs to get done, or a project you’d like to be involved in, things just seem to line up.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#336

Post by [deleted] »

bradlys wrote: post #289
gotaquestion wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand what "the game" is, and I'm in my mid-50's. I don't know whether I'm so good at the game I don't know I'm playing it--because nothing bad has happened--or, I'm not playing it at all--and nothing bad has happened. And I've been in this since the late 80's, through IBM, Microsoft, and Intel, not to mention two startups and contracting. Can you elaborate what The Game actually is?

I feel like I’ve been at more companies than you and I started in 2013. The fuck. The game is about presenting an image that doesn’t actually exist. It’s about not acknowledging your manager is a toxic piece of shit and your company is completely broken and will likely be bankrupt in a few years while execs milk every ounce from it. It’s about faking positivity and that you’re so excited to join the company because i…

[deleted]

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#337

Post by Clubber »

gotaquestion wrote: post #277
bradlys wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Work is a lie, play the game. If there’s any advice I could ever give anyone who has any amount of integrity and tries to live an honest life - it’s this alone. If you don’t play the game - you’re not playing the game everyone else is and you will always lose in the end. Extremely painful to deal with for bright eyed young folks or those switching industries thinking things might be different.

I'm not sure I understand what "the game" is, and I'm in my mid-50's. I don't know whether I'm so good at the game I don't know I'm playing it--because nothing bad has happened--or, I'm not playing it at all--and nothing bad has happened. And I've been in this since the late 80's, through IBM, Microsoft, and Intel, not to mention two startups and contracting. Can you elaborate what The Game actually is?

>I'm not sure I understand what "the game" is, and I'm in my mid-50's.

Simple.

  1. Be good at your job.
  2. Don't be an asshole.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#338

Post by throw1230 »

jallen_dot_dev wrote: post #305
throw1230 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the feedback OP has given to HR has any substance. If you throw around heavy words like this, you better know how to back your words up. - passive aggressive: This is a personal judgment. He was passive aggressive in what way? - excluded you from the team: How was he excluded? Was he not invited to events? Or did he not get good projects? If you are a temp with potential performance problems, it's normal that…

You are sealioning with all of these questions and accusations. This isn't a trial, aroundtown doesn't need to divulge all of the evidence in order to share their anecdote here. You've made an unfair judgement without knowing them or their boss.

I've made a judgment about the event with what I have read. I have no intention to bully anyone.

My point is clear, we are only reading one side of the story and I don't see an iota of maturity in the story he described. Therefore I also don't believe that his manager called everyone in the town to tell them not to hire him. We don't even know the feedback was sent out to his manager.

Maybe the other employers figured out on their own or maybe they asked his manager for a reference.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#339

Post by karaterobot »

aroundtown wrote: post #99

I made the mistake and told the truth one time early in my career. I got fired, err... I wasn't retained after a multi-month temp period, and was brought in to be fired, then exit interviewed. I was upset, but stuck to the truth. My direct boss was passive aggressive, didn't like me, and excluded me from the team. His code was awful, in the long term wasn't maintainable, and wouldn't be able to meet the needs of the…

It should have been HR that interviewed you, and your direct boss should not have been given specific information that would make them hold a grudge about anything you said. Sounds like that company has some issues.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#340

Post by throw1230 »

stavros wrote: post #253
throw1230 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah man, exit interviews aren't to express opinions or talk shit, it's a data source for HR to identify problems emerging as patterns and improve their org/company. One guy saying "my boss sucked" isn't really feedback

I didn't say it was useful feedback, I said they asked him his opinion and they got it. Badmouthing him around town for it is completely uncalled for.

Eh we don't really know what happened and to what extent he was badmouthed. If it's as bad as he says, then yes that was uncalled for
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