Earlier quoted context omitted.
> HR is the subunit of the firm dedicated to minimizing risk and maximizing efficiency across the firm (and thus, independently of the specific business function of other units) in the extraction of surplus value from workers. And the best, and certainly the cheapest, way to achieve that is by having happy employees in a healthy work environment. So in my experience, that's what HR tries to achieve. I'm sorry your ex…
> And the best, and certainly the cheapest, way to achieve that is by having happy employees in a healthy work environment. I think that's way too broad and general of a statement. It really depends on the nature of the industry, the competitive landscape, and many other things. In non-essential software, where the hands-on technical employees have tremendous influence over the direction of the firm, that may be true…
Exit interviews are a trap
251–260 of 431 posts
Re: Exit interviews are a trap
#252Good lord, what terrible advice. If anyone is reading this and thinking of adopting his ideas, please consider (with the exception being if you're still early in your career): 1) Being true to yourself is worth more than any of his purported wins 2) Be your own merit, and don't rely on others for references or goodwill 3) If every exit interviewee states that the CEO is a dick, that can't be ignored. She won't lose h…
In that spirit of honesty: you really have no idea, and are extrapolating from a sample size of one. What feels good and righteous is not always what is most effective.
> 1) Being true to yourself is worth more than any of his purported wins
This advice is about being fully truthful with others. You can avoid exit interviews as a waste of your time, and still be "true to yourself."
> 2) Be your own merit, and don't rely on others for references or goodwill
You don't get a choice in whether employers use references, and in the he-said-she-said scenario, you lose against the candidate whose references weren't toxic. This is borderline "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" advice.
> If every exit interviewee states that the CEO is a dick, that can't be ignored.
It actually totally can. HR reports to the CEO, not the board. Bill Gross lasted 43 years at PIMCO, which is longer than your typical HR career. In fact, I'd almost bet "asshole" is a job requirement, based on stories we hear about CEOs. I've never personally encountered such a person professionally, but if you're leaving because they're an asshole, telling them that to someone who can make good on the classic "you'll never work in this town again" threat is doing yourself no favors.
> If you get in trouble for telling the truth, that's not a company you need to be at.
I feel like you don't understand what an exit interview is: it's somebody in HR interviewing you to protect themselves from lawsuits. They want to know if you are leaving due to harassment, or violence, etc. By the time you do an exit interview, you have already decided to leave the company, and unless the reason you are leaving has to do with illegal behavior, it's unreasonable to conflate the interview with HR changing anything.
Re: Exit interviews are a trap
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except aroundtown expressed their opinion to HR when asked, and the boss went around badmouthing them around town. Only one of the two is the asshole here.
Nah man, exit interviews aren't to express opinions or talk shit, it's a data source for HR to identify problems emerging as patterns and improve their org/company. One guy saying "my boss sucked" isn't really feedback
Re: Exit interviews are a trap
#254I have no idea what the author is on about. The exit interview is often the best 30 minutes of a bad job! You can tell them what they are doing well, what they aren't doing well, praise good employees and criticize bad managers. If you are both professionals, it's a cathartic experience that supports your remaining coworkers. If they are not professional, they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway. But if…
> a cathartic experience If you need catharsis after leaving a job, call up your old college roommate or your parents to bellyache. Nothing you say is confidential. There's a good chance the notes will go directly to your old manager and/or manager's manager, with your name on it. Be bland and non-committal, and if you are really pressed, give the mildest criticism like "I wish the ticketing system was easier to use"…
At the big corporation I work at, we have yearly surveys. We also do exit interviews with people who are leaving. You're right the notes usually go directly to the person's supervisor. Then the upper management guys put together some kind of directive to try and improve whatever was spelled out in the surveys or the exit interview feedback if they start seeing a pattern.
Then it becomes a quarterly goal for the manager - say reducing team churn before EOY. Goal is met, everything goes back to normal and nobody is the wiser about anything said in the exit interview.
Its literally a one-time deal that is a short-term, surface level managerial fix.
Even when you supposedly have a system in place that should theoretically handle negative survey and exit interview feedback, the system is designed to more or less just sweep it under the carpet as if nothing ever happened.
Re: Exit interviews are a trap
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a cathartic experience If you need catharsis after leaving a job, call up your old college roommate or your parents to bellyache. Nothing you say is confidential. There's a good chance the notes will go directly to your old manager and/or manager's manager, with your name on it. Be bland and non-committal, and if you are really pressed, give the mildest criticism like "I wish the ticketing system was easier to use"…
> There's a good chance the notes will go directly to your old manager and/or manager's manager, with your name on it. Why should I care? I say things during an exit interview I want them to know.
If "them" is your old manager, why not just tell them directly?
Re: Exit interviews are a trap
#256If it's something that no one is likely to take too personally, then sure tell them that you didn't like the quality of the free lunch or that you wanted an air hockey table instead of foosball.
But there's really no upside to slamming your former boss, and there could be a downside if the hiring manager at the company you want to work for reaches out to that former boss personally to ask about you.
Re: Exit interviews are a trap
#257Re: Exit interviews are a trap
#258Great advice here. HR is NEVER your friend. They are not on your side. DO NOT TRUST HR. Anonymous feedback is never anonymous. DO NOT TRUST HR. Here's the deal... Exit interviews, as a manager, were annoying because they could ding me on my annual reviews. And that's fine, except... people would complain about things I had no control over. "Oh, my manager made me do something stupid that I didn't like!" Yup, I get it…
It sounds like you're including yourself in the group you call "petty". And in an earlier part of the post, you talked about behavior that I'd consider vindictive.
Honest question: Are you happy that you behave that way, or do you wish you behaved differently?
I'm not criticizing. I'm genuinely curious about the different ways people see the world.
Re: Exit interviews are a trap
#259In fact, the multiplier goes negative after someone exits in most companies I've experienced, resulting in them being blamed for recent decisions they were party to, even if they seemed fine at the time (scapegoating). Everything the departed touched is ripe for second-guessing.
If I want to give advice or feedback, I do so early and respectfully. If I don't feel heard and decide to leave, I won't be repeating it because its weight is sinking like a stone between announcing my departure, the exit interview, and joining the ranks of ex-employees.
Any self-serving catharsis isn't worth the damage done to the professional relationships, which the author covers nicely.
Re: Exit interviews are a trap
#260My issue with the author's claims is that everything is framed in a "what's in it for me" reference. Even when they decided to break their own rule and go to an exit interview, the decision was made because there was the "didn’t think I had any downside risk." There are times when your personal choices may need to take a backseat to more important goals. If you are really committed to a mission, even one you've decid…
Whistleblowers get destroyed in the culture we have right now, they loose everything. It don't think its reasonable to ask people to destroy their own lives so that we might one day find out about the horrors that companies do only to watch as nothing is done to resolve it with the perpetrators. If the circumstances were different and the public didn't stand for such widespread mistreatment of those that stood agains…