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Exit interviews are a trap

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Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#211

Post by stavros »

throw1230 wrote: post #171
aroundtown wrote: post #99

I made the mistake and told the truth one time early in my career. I got fired, err... I wasn't retained after a multi-month temp period, and was brought in to be fired, then exit interviewed. I was upset, but stuck to the truth. My direct boss was passive aggressive, didn't like me, and excluded me from the team. His code was awful, in the long term wasn't maintainable, and wouldn't be able to meet the needs of the…

It sounds like you weren't meeting the needs of the company either and this is all sour grapes. If someone is not meeting the expectations or underperforming and it's not a character problem. I'd be open to working with them if they did some growing somewhere else. If however, you have this kind of attitude of blame-shifting and finger pointing without any substance to back it up, no one will want to work with you. Y…

Except aroundtown expressed their opinion to HR when asked, and the boss went around badmouthing them around town. Only one of the two is the asshole here.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#212

Post by samstave »

djrogers wrote: post #205
samstave wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HR IS NOT YOUR FRIEND, EVER. Ive been in orgs where HR was literally sleeping with head of sales, and had me fix phones with dickpics and BJ vids and etc btwn employees... uh HR IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. Do not confide in them, especially anything personal. Also, if you have an IOS device - log into your apple account and confirm the devices tied to it.. HR will (in many SV orgs) attempt to add a device to your apple accou…

> Also, if you have an IOS device - log into your apple account and confirm the devices tied to it.. HR will (in many SV orgs) attempt to add a device to your apple account to monitor you. This comes off as more than just a little bit paranoid - HR can't just add devices to your iCloud account. It requires credentials and 2FA to do that for one thing, and it'd be illegal in most of the countries we're in to boot.

Sure, we will go with your assessment of assumption over my hard evidence to the contrary...

Good thing that such acts are *illegal* - that'll show'em.

--

FYI - KEEP YOUR PERSONAL SHIT PERSONAL.

---

One must develop a personal air-gap.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#214

Post by jeffwask »

JJMcJ wrote: post #196
jeffwask wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they are not professional, they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway. Most 'references' are "Bill worked here from 6/2019 to 12/2020. Bill left with the title of Chief Ball Washer." They may throw in an eligible for rehire or not but the boomer idea of a Employer Reference has been dead and buried almost as long as I have been in the workforce. And I'm closer to retirement than I am to when I joined…

An informal reference is another deal. Somebody at new company is a buddy with someone at old company, and calls up to ask "What's the deal on ". No paper trail, nothing for the lawyers to track down. Do you really think that never happens?

The context of the article is in reference to being honest with the company in an exit interview. It has zero to do with informal references, personal references, or that fact that you run into people you used to work with in every industry.

If HR is printing and handing out your exit interview to all your former colleagues and they all disagree with your POV; a) you have a bigger problem and/or b) you might just be the asshole everyone else is talking about.

Edit: To be fair, your feedback could get back to the person it was about and they could fuck with you later but aren't they doing you a favor at that point. Anyone who I dislike enough to specifically call out by name in a negative way in an exit interview was typically someone I would never work for or with again.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#215

Post by ghaff »

scruple wrote: post #181
noir_lord wrote: post #113

I told my boss at the time that the reason I was leaving was because they where forcing us back into the office to do meetings from our desk in the middle of the pandemic (which it was, 18mths ago June). I also told him that if they didn't change that policy they'd haemorrage their most senior staff. Of the 9 lead devs they had at the time (including me) they lost 7 over the next 8mths (I already knew three where lea…

> Of the 9 lead devs they had at the time (including me) they lost 7 over the next 8mths (I already knew three where leaving in the interview just hadn't announced it yet). > It took them another 8mths to decide that remote might be an option, after literal decades of experience on their systems (not me I was a relatively new hire) walked out the door. I am starting to see this happen at work. We've undergone a re-or…

Pretty much the same with references. Of course, not really surprising. If I give the contact information for three hand-picked people does anyone really think any of them are going to say “run away fast”?

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#216

Post by [deleted] »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #188
jeffwask wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they are not professional, they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway. Most 'references' are "Bill worked here from 6/2019 to 12/2020. Bill left with the title of Chief Ball Washer." They may throw in an eligible for rehire or not but the boomer idea of a Employer Reference has been dead and buried almost as long as I have been in the workforce. And I'm closer to retirement than I am to when I joined…

I think for a lot of engineering jobs this is absolutely true. That said, it depends entirely on what your focus or what your industry is. As an example, before I moved into software engineering, I worked in digital media. There are maybe 22,000 working journalists in digital media in the United States (and that's also allowing for employees at the larger national papers like WSJ, NYT, Washington Post, etc) -- give o…

[deleted]

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#217

Post by JJMcJ »

jeffwask wrote: post #214
JJMcJ wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An informal reference is another deal. Somebody at new company is a buddy with someone at old company, and calls up to ask "What's the deal on ". No paper trail, nothing for the lawyers to track down. Do you really think that never happens?

The context of the article is in reference to being honest with the company in an exit interview. It has zero to do with informal references, personal references, or that fact that you run into people you used to work with in every industry. If HR is printing and handing out your exit interview to all your former colleagues and they all disagree with your POV; a) you have a bigger problem and/or b) you might just be…

The risk of honesty is that something negative you say will get back to the target, who will then bad mouth you.

It does happen. In the worst cases, the bad guy will actively sabotage the frankly speaking exiter's job search.

You say, "I really found Bad-Director's micromanaging our sprints unendurable".

Now Bad-Director is your enemy and will bad mouth you at every opportunity including off the record reference checks. Doesn't happen 100% of the time, but often enough to be a risk.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#218

Post by foogazi »

Just say everything is great and you just want a change

If they cared about what you thought you already had countless 1-1’s, all-hands, anual reviews, etc

Be realistic- they are not going to fix their org based on 30 minutes of my feedback

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#219

Post by candiddevmike »

legitster wrote: post #26

I have no idea what the author is on about. The exit interview is often the best 30 minutes of a bad job! You can tell them what they are doing well, what they aren't doing well, praise good employees and criticize bad managers. If you are both professionals, it's a cathartic experience that supports your remaining coworkers. If they are not professional, they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway. But if…

In my experience, exit interviews are mostly a formality that do not create any changes to people or processes after you leave. I think it would be interesting to have a law that says potential job candidates are allowed to view recorded exit interviews though.

Right now Glassdoor basically serves that purpose and is more cathartic than venting to some poor HR peon--someone might actually read your Glassdoor review.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#220

Post by mindcrime »

legitster wrote: post #208
JJMcJ wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a cathartic experience If you need catharsis after leaving a job, call up your old college roommate or your parents to bellyache. Nothing you say is confidential. There's a good chance the notes will go directly to your old manager and/or manager's manager, with your name on it. Be bland and non-committal, and if you are really pressed, give the mildest criticism like "I wish the ticketing system was easier to use"…

> There's a good chance the notes will go directly to your old manager and/or manager's manager, with your name on it. Why should I care? I say things during an exit interview I want them to know.

Why should I care? I say things during an exit interview I want them to know.

Because you can't predict the future with 100% fidelity. Which means you could find yourself in situations like:

- working under the same person (that you pissed off via the exit interview) again at a different company

- applying for a job at another company where that person (that you pissed off via the exit interview) now works and will badmouth you

- applying to go back to the company you're now leaving

- etc., etc.

I would say there's nothing to be gained from being honest during an exit interview, and just enough to be lost, to make it a bad deal. But a lot of it honestly comes down to "luck of the draw." I'm sure plenty of people have gone all "scorched earth" in an exit interview and never had any fallout from it. Others, however...

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