Why I'm in the Army Reserve – an explainer for my friends in tech • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I'm in the Army Reserve – an explainer for my friends in tech

#231

Post by cscurmudgeon » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 5:39 PM UTC

goodpoint wrote: post #213

photochemsyn wrote: post #131

The most important thing to realize about military service is that you sign away all your citizenship rights (free speech, etc.) when you sign up for the service. Hopefully you won't be used in ridiculous debacles like the 2003 Iraq Invasion, based on lies about WMDs pushed by Washington (and see British role as well), but you'll have no say in the matter. The other thing to realize is that, at least in the USA, they…

> you sign away all your citizenship rights > completely desperate ... the military is there as an option This does not happen by accident. It's practically indentured servitude with extra steps Step 1: cut public schooling, food programs, job programs, affordable housing, public transportation, free healthcare Step 2: fund the army to recruit a lot of people. Provide schooling, housing, food and healthcare to soldie…

False.

The US spends a lot on public education. A lot of it is inefficient due to highly politicized unions and top-level admins that pilfer the money out from benefitting ground level teachers and students.

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/issues-2020-us-public-sc...

> 1. Thanks to decades of increases, America spends more per student than any other major developed nation. U.S. per-pupil expenditures have nearly tripled over the past half-century, from $4,720 in 1966 to $13,847 in 2016 (2018 dollars). America spends more per pupil than any other major developed nation—10% more than the United Kingdom and 28% more than France; in the OECD, only Norway, Switzerland, and Luxembourg spend more.

  Per Pupil Nearly Highest in the World and in History

The U.S. spends 35% more per pupil than the average among countries in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).[7] Among those countries, the U.S. falls behind only Denmark, Norway, and Luxembourg.[8] In 2015, the latest year for which OECD data are available, combined primary and secondary spending in the U.S. reached $12,800, significantly higher than other major European nations such as the United Kingdom ($11,400), Germany ($11,100), France ($10,000), Italy ($9,100), and Spain ($8,300).

Similarly, we spend a lot on other social programs. But inefficiently.

This is due to both governmental inefficieny and rent seeking.

Re: Why I'm in the Army Reserve – an explainer for my friends in tech

#232

Post by ethbr0 » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 5:40 PM UTC

8note wrote: post #202

ethbr0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. Part of being part of a national military is subordinating your desires to the chain of command, which in a democracy usually flows to the highest elected official. If one wants to pick and choose "right" conflicts, one shouldn't serve. And ultimately... while I know HN has a pretty anti-authority bend... if you don't trust your government to deploy military power, what do you trust them for? Which isn't saying t…

I'd consider deploying the military to be a much higher bar of trust than building and maintaining roads and tax policies, providing healthcare and education, etc. I don't trust the government to use force responsibly, especially on people who are not part of a social contract with it. The government's authority comes from the consent of the governed, not by force

> I'd consider deploying the military to be a much higher bar of trust than building and maintaining roads and tax policies, providing healthcare and education, etc.

What happens when roads are destroyed or barricaded for tolls, taxes aren't paid, or healthcare and education are withheld from anyone who isn't a white man? (to offer a few hypotheticals)

Re: Why I'm in the Army Reserve – an explainer for my friends in tech

#233

Post by adewinter » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 5:41 PM UTC

basisword wrote: post #102

adewinter wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a pretty disengenous take on the author's thought process. If you read the entire article it's clear that he believes in the concept of defending his country and trusting his leaders to correctly decide how that defense is carried out. If that decision is to send him to the middle east then so be it. It very clearly is not about him wanting to "do a bit of invading." Maybe you think the middle east inv…

>> But you should blame the correct actor for that call, and it certainly is not the individual soldier. He joined while that war was ongoing (2007). I think it's perfectly fair to judge him in that case when the choice to take part was 100% his.

Sure, if you're operating under the assumption that a) he understands geo-politics and global defense better than the leadership of his country and b) he has better and more real-time information (than the leadership) about the situation on the ground in Iraq/Afghanistan at the time.

If he thought what they were doing over there in 2007 was morally/ethically indefensible and decided to join up anyway then, yes, judge away.

Probably more straightforward to lay the blame squarely where it's due, at those who made the high level decisions to engage in the war in the first place, especially in the context of the outcomes of said war.

Re: Why I'm in the Army Reserve – an explainer for my friends in tech

#234

Post by somethoughts » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 5:45 PM UTC

It's interesting if there could be something similar to the Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) but for emergency preparedness. In there Western portion of North America, it seems such things will be more needed going forward - whether it be prescribed burns or actual fire fighting.

From an individual participant perspective - it'd seem like it'd scratch a similar itch - slightly dangerous, wilderness training, heroic and camaraderie building.

From a societal perspective - there will always be natural disasters. Also some of the skills could be useful for national defense but not having to maintain an organization that's sole purpose is national defense seems like it'd be a huge benefit. Why not train the team and build camaraderie by fighting fires that need fighting versus expensive simulated war games.

A Season with the Hotshots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6CP5SKQjzg

Re: Why I'm in the Army Reserve – an explainer for my friends in tech

#235

Post by systemvoltage » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 5:45 PM UTC

adolph wrote: post #199

systemvoltage wrote: post #91

> I meet a lot of people in tech who tell me with a straight face that they genuinely think we should just unilaterally disband the Army right now, and cannot comprehend why I’d have anything to do with it. At RubyConf 2014 someone in the lunch queue asked what I did before I was in tech and asked me if I enjoyed killing babies when I explained. I think Silicon Valley has a lot to learn from this. I worked with a def…

"a lot of people in tech . . . think we should just unilaterally disband" Not SV, but similarly myopic: https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/dell-apple-should-cl...

I’m not following, what’s Dell vs Apple in 1997 has to do with disdain for working on Defense in SV?

I want to clarify: there is still a massive spectrum from people working on Defense in SV and the types of engineers I interacted with (Googlers). What I find incredibly worrying is that the people that have disdain for Defense, it is sort of shallow and the main motive is to use it as a moral-superiority weapon against people that are on the receiving end. It’s free points to score with their colleagues. This is truly despicable behavior and I’ve seen it first hand. Fortunately, I’ve always been able to avert the discussion and diffuse it before it gets worse.

But it has left with me a sort of a chilling effect. Not being able to express one’s history, however marred it is in the opinion of the listener. This was not the case in places I’ve lived (East coast). Anyhow this thread is a way for me to share my grievances, for those listening please be kind to people that may not share your political or philosophical background. They’re not all baby killers.

Re: Why I'm in the Army Reserve – an explainer for my friends in tech

#236

Post by nobody9999 » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 5:46 PM UTC

trash001 wrote: post #133

micromacrofoot wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What can we do for those trapped in poverty whose only ticket out was enlistment? You just give them the fucking food, education, and healthcare. Look at the current US military budget and tell me that's impossible. The military is not offering "good" — it's offering the roll of a dice. Sure, one side says "good" but you've got a "death" side too. Wealthy people do not have to roll this dice at all. The majority of…

> You just give them the fucking food, education, and healthcare. Look at the current US military budget and tell me that's impossible. It’s impossible. Here is some analysis: https://hwfo.substack.com/p/peace-in-ukraine-and-universal-h...

>It’s impossible.

Nothing is impossible. Well, except certain classes of time travel into the past.

Re: Why I'm in the Army Reserve – an explainer for my friends in tech

#237

Post by mardifoufs » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 5:46 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #56

Imnimo wrote: post #40

>I think a country absolutely must be able to fight to defend its people and friends. Does this really feel like an accurate description of what the British military has done over the past, say, 20 years?

Yes it does. Was Afghanistan better off before the pull out, or now under the Taliban? Iraq is a mess, sure, but at least nobody is gassing whole cities and we can be immensely proud of the liberation of Kuwait although that was more than 20 years ago. Right now we are providing vital military assistance to Ukraine, and I wish we were doing a lot, lot more. The failures were political ones. Militarily the army did th…

I'm sorry but this is pure apologist rhetoric. It's so hand wavy that it puts even russian propaganda war justification to shame. "I bet they are doing better, if we ignore the 2 decades of war and hundreds of thousands of deaths!" is not a great argument, especially since you ignore the even more repulsive intervention in libya.

Re: Why I'm in the Army Reserve – an explainer for my friends in tech

#238

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 5:50 PM UTC

jriot wrote: post #226

photochemsyn wrote: post #131

The most important thing to realize about military service is that you sign away all your citizenship rights (free speech, etc.) when you sign up for the service. Hopefully you won't be used in ridiculous debacles like the 2003 Iraq Invasion, based on lies about WMDs pushed by Washington (and see British role as well), but you'll have no say in the matter. The other thing to realize is that, at least in the USA, they…

I served in the military for 11 years as an air traffic controller; 95% military jobs are non-combat related. Moreover, the military does more than fight wars, we launched aircraft to aid Indonesia after the tsunami hit them, Haiti after the earthquake hit them, Antartica for scientific research, etc... Additionally, the military completely paid for my bachelors and two masters degrees and I am now employed as a data…

I got my humanitarian ribbon by rendering assistance in Indonesia.

Re: Why I'm in the Army Reserve – an explainer for my friends in tech

#239

Post by mardifoufs » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 5:51 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #198

DonaldFisk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the 2001 invasion, Afghanistan was ruled by the Taliban. Invasion of Iraq in 2003 was a different matter. At that point, Iraq didn't have WMD, and wasn't harbouring Al Qaeda, so the invasion was unjustified.

The 2003 invasion is obviously contentious. I’d argue we should have done it the first time, but that’s moot.

It's as contentious as the russian invasion of ukraine is. Meaning, not at all unless you fall for the obvious war justifying rhetoric.

I dont know why but it seems like there's been such a weird push for rehabilitating what the US and it's allies did to the middle east since the start of the russian war of aggression against ukraine.

Re: Why I'm in the Army Reserve – an explainer for my friends in tech

#240

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 5:52 PM UTC

scruple wrote: post #98

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #74

My son was Army Reserve (US), did a tour in Iraq back in the day. He reported that Reservists didn't get the respect of regular Army, at least in his unit. They got shot at, shot back, did convoy duty, got blown up (twice). But somehow not 'real soldiers'. His unit got no commendations or promotions from the regular army base commander. He returned, still had enlistment period left, went straight to the Army Recruiti…

The treatment of reservists, in OIF specifically, across the board -- from active duty service members all the way up the chain to top military leadership and the GWB admin -- was disgraceful. I saw a little bit of it first hand when I was enlisted. FWIW, they're all real soldiers in my eyes.

In Marine Infantry School we would have regular brawls with the future weekend warriors it was quite funny.