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Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

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Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#801
post #44

Having been an interviewer at a FAANG for many years, I can explain some of the logic behind it. I'm not saying this logic is valid , but it's how we got here, imho. First: we no longer trust the hiring manager alone, because probably they aren't a strong developer. We instead trust strong developers that are well trained at evaluating good devs. At the same time, we don't want to thrust a dev onto a hiring manager,…

> When I first was an interviewer, I liked everybody! I would have hired them all

Probably would have worked out just as well as the current system if not better.

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe we have different definitions here, but I've never, or perhaps once, had a manager who I felt could do my job in a pinch, The chief of Air Force still flies the fighter jets just as well as the junior pilots. The head of surgery in a hospital still operate just as the junior surgeon. Why does tech have to be different?

An air force officer may have to qualify on their aircraft each year, but they're unlikely to be "the most experienced" fighter pilot, and it's common in the military for enlisted people to make fun of officers for being too abstracted away from the life of a soldier. > The head of surgery in a hospital still operate just as the junior surgeon. Why does tech have to be different? Because the load we put on medical pe…

You've got some reasonable points and I don't just want to completely gang-tackle you here, but there is a part of your argument that I think is sufficiently incorrect in a sufficiently harmful way that I'm going to sort of keep at you about it, in what I hope is an open-minded or at least respectful way.

Some people like the book "Coders at Work" (I do), some do not, but almost anyone would agree that the people interviewed are absolute luminaries [0].

There are 15 chapters comprising 15 interviews. You have to get to #6, arguably #7 before you find someone who at the time of writing wasn't both a world-renowned hacker and currently or at one time a demonstrably successful engineering leader. The first 5 being: jwz, Brad Fitzpatrick, Douglas Crockford, Brendan Eich, Joshua Bloch. It starts to get a little blurry in the second half because it's so thick with CS academics (who in a different way also do engineering management), but you've still got VP-types who still code like Peter Norvig. The ~50% who aren't demonstrated engineering leaders are super hard-core CS researchers like Donald Knuth. The book doesn't even interview Cliff Click, or John Carmack, or talk about the fact that Larry Page and Sergey Brin wrote the first version of Google themselves and continued maintaining parts of it well into hyper-growth. Eric Schmidt wrote `lex`. When Jack Dorsey was recruiting me for Square over lunch he made an incredibly eloquent argument about why he uses OCaml rather than Haskell for his personal hacking.

At the time I was an L7 EM, my L9 boss didn't have much time to write code, but asked probing questions about everything from the merits of various binary classifiers given imbalanced underlying Bernoulli distributions to the algebraic properties of the data structures we were using for distributed systems convergence.

I don't dispute that plenty of successful leaders in technical organizations have become rusty as hackers when they hit the mega-seniority, but the idea that some L6/L7 manager shouldn't be able to lift some of their team's serious code off the ground, let alone some undergraduate dynamic-programming interview question as was the original point of my original post is simply contradicted by a mountain of evidence both generally-available and anecdotal to numerous people in this thread.

You can get ahead as a mid-level EM without knowing the frib-frobs from that whatsits, but God-willing I'll never work for one again. That's a visibility game, it's a popularity game, it's a schedule-too-many-meetings game, it's a post-too-much-on-the-internal thing game. Fuck that game.

[0] https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/coders-at-work/97814302...

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "...I failed the phone screen somehow by someone who sounded 20 years younger than me..." Consider, possibly, that the mismatch is explained in this sentence. I will absolutely give high weight to how the receptionist is treated by the candidate.

If you are implying that I was rude to this person, you are mistaken. I treated the interviewer with the same good nature and respect that I would treat anyone. The difference between someone less than 5 years out from school and someone who has been doing this for decades is that, when you are younger, you believe that software engineering skills have anything to do with what you learned in undergrad. I misspoke on…

> If you are implying that I was rude to this person, you are mistaken.

Nothing rising to the level of implying and certainly not implying rude.

Just, "I failed the phone screen somehow by someone who sounded 20 years younger than me" might be suggestive of something to self-examine.

But since you're confident that you are fully innocent in the interaction and the rejection is solely due to your interlocutor's naivete and inexperience, then it's no doubt true.

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you really know? People don't usually talk publicly about their PIP. I went from long time IC to manager at a faang adjacent company. It was eye opening to see who was on a PIP and go through calibrations. There were well liked, competent people who others on the team got along with but they just were not delivering at the expected level. Sometimes the problem was lack of motivation or bad role fit.

Um, this is an antonymous forum, wouldn't you expect many comments from people that were PIPed if it was a very common thing?

Sure, but that doesn't give you any information about your particular company or team. In my experience, how aggressive companies are about "performance management" (using PIPs but this can also include other strategies like layoffs and outright firing) varies quite a lot.

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I am working in IT in Southeast Asia (Indonesia and Vietnam mostly) and I have never heard about this.

It is very common in India. Especially the service based companies

Ah. The culture in India is probably very different from SEA.

I literally never heard about such a thing here. (Not saying it's not happening. I am not from here originally.)

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#807
Never. One is the best.

If and if they have a note from the Hiring Manager's Mom would I give ANY employer a second interview.

If you are Talented and they do not hire you on the spot, they are not going to do so. Why? The "A Player" to be named later has a new position within seven (7) days. Period. Get it?

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#808
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you know it works? Because the hallways aren't empty.

the hallways aren’t empty due to the total compensation and perceived prestige working at a FAANG or similar company offers.

Sounds like you're agreeing with me in disagreeing tones

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#809
It's because culture-fit is the single most important aspect of any hire

Followed by teachability/ability to learn

Sure, technical ability (in whatever role you're trying to fill/enter) is important, but if you clash with the team(s) you'll be working with, it doesn't matter how "good" you are - as I wrote several years ago[0], "all-star teams" are horrible: what matters is that as a team you can [very close to] "the best".

Having a series of individual interviews can help ensure that no one's inherent bias (pro or con) unduly affects the hiring process

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[0] https://antipaucity.com/2014/06/25/who-wants-an-all-star-tea...

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