I had a job before covid that involved sitting at a desk and being on Skype calls all day. Most people were in the same building but the buildings were large and meeting rooms were scarce so they were rarely used. This isn't anything new, unfortunately. Doesn't make it any less stupid, though.
Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls
211–220 of 265 posts
Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls
#212This was literally what used to happen pre-pandemic as well with international teams. The pandemic just made people realize how weird it was for work to be associated with a place.
Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason to have anyone in an office is because it makes managers and executives feel better. It’s really that simple. No one who has ever worked remotely themselves could possibly believe that employees are more productive in an office. I think the delusion most people tell themselves about in person being better for spontaneous conversations, and better productivity comes down to just wanting human interaction. W…
> No one who has ever worked remotely themselves could possibly believe that employees are more productive in an office Anyone who makes a statement like this is naive ay best. Some people thrive on environments with other people around. Some people don't have a home space conducive to working (either lack of space or having other people living with them). Some people work _much_ better in areas of places where they…
> Some people thrive on environments with other people around. Some people don't have a home space conducive to working (either lack of space or having other people living with them). Some people work _much_ better in areas of places where they have supervision; that doesn't mean they need to be babysat just that having someone around keepz them in line and performing well.
I don’t really see how any of this has to do with remote work. Remote doesn’t necessarily mean working from home. It could mean working from a coffee shop, a co-working space, a boat, a beach, a park, a mountain, etc. If someone craves being around people they can solve that pretty easily in a remote environment (granted it’s been more difficult these past two years, ill give you that).
> and dogmatically claiming it is weakens the argument for everyone else
Given the proper setup, and support from management, there isn’t an instance where remote work isn’t better. Whatever Fred is missing about an office environment is reproducible in a remote environment. It just takes looking at remote work holistically.
Personally I feel the pandemic has set us back quite a bit. We had companies haphazardly forcing remote work without any sort of strategy at all. This obviously is going to cause some people to think it doesn’t work. The problem isn’t remote work, it’s that your company just sucks very badly at doing it.
Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason to have anyone in an office is because it makes managers and executives feel better. It’s really that simple. No one who has ever worked remotely themselves could possibly believe that employees are more productive in an office. I think the delusion most people tell themselves about in person being better for spontaneous conversations, and better productivity comes down to just wanting human interaction. W…
> Working from home is better in every instance where it’s possible. So you're saying that people who are just more productive and happier working from the office do not exist? I sure feel like I exist..
I’m saying if you’re more productive in an environment where you’re forced to commute into work, then you don’t have the proper tools to be more productive remotely. This is very common. It’s the lack of a remote working strategy on the part of your company. Of course you won’t have a successful time working from home if you just take your existing in-office work lifestyle and copy-paste it on to working remotely.
If your location is causing you to be less productive, then change your location. Go to a coffee shop, or a co-working space. Go to the park. Go anywhere you want.
Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Working from home is better in every instance where it’s possible. So you're saying that people who are just more productive and happier working from the office do not exist? I sure feel like I exist..
I’m saying if you’re more productive in an environment where you’re forced to commute into work, then you don’t have the proper tools to be more productive remotely. This is very common. It’s the lack of a remote working strategy on the part of your company. Of course you won’t have a successful time working from home if you just take your existing in-office work lifestyle and copy-paste it on to working remotely. If…
> Go anywhere you want.
Which is the office where my coworkers are. It makes working a lot more fun for me.
Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls
#216Half my friends say they work less than 1 hour a day remote. Literally attend standup, complain they are somewhat blocked or investigating something and then just work on personal projects or just game. The rest are doing chores because their spouses are not considering them working because they are "home". All kinds of chores from pick up the kids to take the dog to the vet. Whoever says overall productivity increas…
> Whoever says overall productivity increases, is probably talking about very disciplined individuals.
That's a very simplistic view of productivity. The kind of work most people here are doing cannot be measured in hours. I can be in an office for 10 hours, bash my keyboard, blabber away in meetings and not produce anything useful. Conversely, I could spend the whole day sitting in the garden and come up with an idea to solve a problem that has been plaguing the company for months.
If people are working an hour a day and still getting their job done then great. If they aren't getting anything done but it's not being noticed then that means they never had a job to do anyway. Being remote doesn't change anything.
Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls
#217As someone who has worked on startups, side gigs, and only around 6 months at a “real” company. I’m always blown away at how many meetings there are in corporate America. What are you even meeting about? Why aren’t you doing hands on keyboard work? Why does a decision need to be made in a room, with everyone pretending to listen? Why are you presenting something to me when I’ll comprehend it far better if I read it,…
Don’t forget the pre meeting meeting to discuss the upcoming meeting and the post meeting meeting to review the meeting.
Ah yes, the “meeting sandwich”. Everyone’s favourite way to spend an entire afternoon…
Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls
#218"Employees Are Returning to the Office, Just to Sit on Zoom Calls" Yep my team is split between 2 sites and works with teams in various other sites. We may have some meeting rooms set up, but we will still be using video calls predominantly.
Maybe it's time to create new teams.
Haha you would think. These actually are the new teams.
I've been in my current position for two years. During that time: I've had 4 managers. The team structure has changed majorly twice (lost about 1/3 of the team because they got reorg'd to a different team/project, then lost 1/2 to posting or leaving the company). We also had app ownership change majorly 3 times.
They're having such a hard time retaining and finding people that they're having to combine teams with 50% losses to make one whole team, start a new office in a new region in the hopes of using a new labor market, start up an offshore team for owning mature products (prod support), and they're finally investigating full/permenant remote jobs to see if they can get more people that way.
Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls
#219Forgive me for this digression and for sounding selfish, but as a junior, I’ve really struggled for the last 2+ years to fully adapt to remote / hybrid working. I’m wondering if anyone has advice on how I can continue to grow and become a top-class engineer within a remote environment? Based on my experience so far, it’s very difficult to both onboard and mentor a junior from a remote setting. It’s not impossible, ho…
I've noticed this as a serious problem for our new hires as well.
The unpleasant truth is that mentoring someone is something that works far better in person, where they can learn from you both directly, through explicit tutoring, and indirectly, through experiencing the kind of person you are and how you navigate your environment.
I feel like this is one good reason why a hybrid working approach might end up being the sweet spot between all remote and all in person. A few days a week, a few days a month, or a few weeks a year in the office together to facilitate these kind of activities.
Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls
#220Forgive me for this digression and for sounding selfish, but as a junior, I’ve really struggled for the last 2+ years to fully adapt to remote / hybrid working. I’m wondering if anyone has advice on how I can continue to grow and become a top-class engineer within a remote environment? Based on my experience so far, it’s very difficult to both onboard and mentor a junior from a remote setting. It’s not impossible, ho…
Your experience is pretty much on point. If you can meet your team in person, do so. Being able to work remotely requires a lot of autonomy and confidence in general.
Bing remote, not having direct contacts with your team/department/etc. tends to be demotivating for a lot of recruits.