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Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

bloomberg.com

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Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#171

Post by someweirdperson »

It is for the survival of managers at the lowest level, especially in locations with high wages.

Top management considers all workers to be equally capable and replaceable. Management at the lower levels requires people to manage at their location (direct superior always at the same location). With full remote work there is no reason to employ people in locations with non-minimal wages. If there is no employees in a location there is no manager managing them either.

It is not managers belief to be able to more easily watch what their employees are doing in a real office. It is just a matter of securing their own job.

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#172

Post by jimmont »

tuckerman wrote: post #138
freyr wrote: post #40

This is the most frustrating part of being forced back to the Bay Area. Even before the pandemic, we always had distributed meetings, with people calling in from various buildings, conference rooms, phone booths, etc. So nothing changes between last month and this month, except that managers get peace-of-mind knowing I’m calling in from somewhere on the premises, and I’m back living in a place where I can’t afford a…

I had plenty of interactions at Google over lunch, in the hallway, while taking a break, etc that we brought to a whiteboard and either ended up with a potentially interesting project or saved us time by finding out something didn’t make sense. These often came from a series of multiple, low stakes conversations that were much more difficult to have remotely. I don’t contend they are impossible, but for me they were…

this outcome can exist remotely, it simply requires effort and maintenance; the gains from working remote are the same scenario, just different context; I haven't figured out yet the specifics of what works because it hasn't been a priority, and what components of it are the quirky part and what are the catalysts for the same outcome (yet); my flaw is thinking outside the box, which managers and companies don't optimize for; in fact in exemplary situations where I led efforts that gained many times the cost of all my work for many years (millions in USD) they didn't notice or care, which I find hard to understand about US corporate and cultural norms; I'm sure there's a relationship between these things, I just haven't sorted it out.

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#173

Post by orzig »

snakey wrote: post #163

Forgive me for this digression and for sounding selfish, but as a junior, I’ve really struggled for the last 2+ years to fully adapt to remote / hybrid working. I’m wondering if anyone has advice on how I can continue to grow and become a top-class engineer within a remote environment? Based on my experience so far, it’s very difficult to both onboard and mentor a junior from a remote setting. It’s not impossible, ho…

No need to apologize! It’s reasonable to have needs, and these make total sense.

I’ve had success doing very long screen sharing while someone works normally. Let them forget you are there, in some ways it’s a lighter ask than breathing over their shoulder. Take notes on things which don’t make sense and batch your questions for when they want to take a break from coding (maybe on the phone, they can clean dishes out whatever). If no teammate is willing to do that, you might be seeing cultural problems unrelated to remote - maybe explore other teams at the company.

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#175

Post by brtkdotse »

irrational wrote: post #52
chihuahua wrote: post #5

This reminds me of the time about 7 years ago when my team (in Redmond, WA) wanted to send me to Beijing for a year. I didn't agree so they sent someone else instead. He spent most of the year living in Beijing and working with a team in Bellevue, WA.

Frankly that sounds awesome. Company paid opportunity to experience another culture in depth? Yes please!

Working with a team offset by 12 hours? No thank you!

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#176

Post by NKosmatos »

someweirdperson wrote: post #171

It is for the survival of managers at the lowest level, especially in locations with high wages. Top management considers all workers to be equally capable and replaceable. Management at the lower levels requires people to manage at their location (direct superior always at the same location). With full remote work there is no reason to employ people in locations with non-minimal wages. If there is no employees in a…

Exactly this, thank you. Lower/middle management exists only to manage people. Most managers aren’t that good in managing remote workers and not having any “real” work to show to their superiors they really need people back in offices so as to show that they’re working themselves. We’re living in rapidly changing times and the working landscape is changing and will change even more.

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#177

Post by NKosmatos »

alexanderchr wrote: post #47
remram wrote: post #42

Often, we are made to come and sit on Zoom calls with masks on .

Why?

Because in some countries it’s mandatory to wear masks in offices (indoor environments with lots of people), so they force people to come in, sit with their masks for 8 hours, not allow physical meetings (or going to other desks), forcing you to eat at your desk just so that you can do Teams/Zoom/WebEx meetings :-) Insane, I know!!!

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#178

Post by freyr »

tuckerman wrote: post #138
freyr wrote: post #40

This is the most frustrating part of being forced back to the Bay Area. Even before the pandemic, we always had distributed meetings, with people calling in from various buildings, conference rooms, phone booths, etc. So nothing changes between last month and this month, except that managers get peace-of-mind knowing I’m calling in from somewhere on the premises, and I’m back living in a place where I can’t afford a…

I had plenty of interactions at Google over lunch, in the hallway, while taking a break, etc that we brought to a whiteboard and either ended up with a potentially interesting project or saved us time by finding out something didn’t make sense. These often came from a series of multiple, low stakes conversations that were much more difficult to have remotely. I don’t contend they are impossible, but for me they were…

Certainly, interesting work and effective in-person collaboration do exist at the these companies, it just varies a lot from team to team. The trope of PhDs hired to optimize button colors exists for a reason.

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#179

Post by zxcvbn4038 »

Even pre-pandemic the majority of the people I work with were overseas - before we had Zoom or Hangouts I was on conference calls. The only compelling reason to go into the office was that it was closer to my kid’s school so less commute time to drop him off/pick him up each day. But now he is remote also so it’s no longer an benefit. I’ve only been to the office once in the past three years - to rescue my plants and clean out my desk.

Cheers to the facilities person that went around watering all the plants. Has to be awesome having a forty story skyrise to yourself.

(I think there is a security guard and a HVAC engineer that still go on site also - I believe the building has to still be cooled to control mold and keep the pumps and values involved from freezing up).

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#180

Post by jen20 »

snakey wrote: post #163

Forgive me for this digression and for sounding selfish, but as a junior, I’ve really struggled for the last 2+ years to fully adapt to remote / hybrid working. I’m wondering if anyone has advice on how I can continue to grow and become a top-class engineer within a remote environment? Based on my experience so far, it’s very difficult to both onboard and mentor a junior from a remote setting. It’s not impossible, ho…

> how I can continue to grow and become a top-class engineer within a remote environment?

Yes, three things:

- Learn to write detailed yet succinct prose, and practice this often.

- Learn to unblock yourself, so that asynchronous communication does not become a barrier. Be prepared to dig in at least 1-2 layers of abstraction below where you typically work and spend lots of time researching unfamiliar topics.

- Decide whether you want to be a generalist or a specialist. There is room for both in the industry. If you want to be a generalist, make sure you are getting n years of experience and not one year of experience n times.

These are largely the same actions to take to be a top class engineer in an office too though.

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