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Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

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Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#161

Post by vanviegen »

ryanSrich wrote: post #137
proc0 wrote: post #87

I was thinking returning to the office is sort of a 'prisoner's dilemma'. Everyone has to make the same choice for it to be effective, otherwise the office experience is diminished and working from home is better at that point, since you'll be in remote meetings anyway. I still think it's a matter of control that the office is preferred. There's absolutely no reason why software problems can't be solved remotely, esp…

The reason to have anyone in an office is because it makes managers and executives feel better. It’s really that simple. No one who has ever worked remotely themselves could possibly believe that employees are more productive in an office. I think the delusion most people tell themselves about in person being better for spontaneous conversations, and better productivity comes down to just wanting human interaction. W…

> Working from home is better in every instance where it’s possible.

So you're saying that people who are just more productive and happier working from the office do not exist? I sure feel like I exist..

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#162

Post by spc476 »

chii wrote: post #103
darinf wrote: post #81

I love having lunch with co-workers. It’s a great way to connect. Even though at my office only about 30% of folks are back, it’s roughly the same group each day. So I’m happy being back even if all meetings involve Zoom. At least getting a conference room for all the zoom calls is not too hard :)

> I love having lunch with co-workers. It’s a great way to connect. it is, but some people who prefer the remote world do so because they don't need nor want to socialize with their coworkers.

I love that I get to work from home [1], yet I still get together with some coworkers for lunch once a week. Yes, we don't work for the same department, but we used to regularly go out for lunch before the pandemic. It also doesn't hurt that we all live closer to each other than we do the office.

[1] I "work" from the Ft. Lauderdale, Florida office. My manager is in Tampla, Florida, and my two other team members are in Reston, Virginia and Seattle, Washington [2]. There's a push from upper management to get people back in the office in May, but there's no way I'm going in. No point to it.

[2] Due to our company being bought out by a larger company, and the rest of my team basically retiring at the end of 2020.

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#163

Post by snakey »

Forgive me for this digression and for sounding selfish, but as a junior, I’ve really struggled for the last 2+ years to fully adapt to remote / hybrid working.

I’m wondering if anyone has advice on how I can continue to grow and become a top-class engineer within a remote environment?

Based on my experience so far, it’s very difficult to both onboard and mentor a junior from a remote setting. It’s not impossible, however, a lot of employers / teams still have not setup effective means for including and training the less experienced members of the team. I realise that much of this learning is of my own responsibility but I really, really miss spending time with my team and learning from those more experienced than I. I feel as though I have stagnated an awful lot over the last two years and there’s only so far self-learning can take you when software engineering is such a collaborative process.

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#164

Post by koonsolo »

JohnBooty wrote: post #100
koonsolo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are just very grumpy that they have to go back to the office. So here comes along this guy that loves going back to the office. Fuck that guy! He must be faking it, he's lying to himself. It's that fake American culture that acts as if it's a nice thing to go back to work. It's because of these kind of people that I'm forced to go back! :) I'm European and I know the fake US thing, but I didn't read that…

Thanks for the kind words and the guidance. I think there was also a misunderstanding. I'm not returning to the office. It was just a one week visit. I am back to working remote. I live 500mi/800km from my office. I will not move there. fake American culture that acts as if it's a nice thing to go back to work Are you from America? I do not understand this statement. I have lived in America my whole life and everybod…

It was just an exaggeration on my part of course.

But as a European looking at US culture, there is definitely a difference between this "positive thinking" attitude. I guess that's what the first response to your post was referring to.

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#165

Post by vanviegen »

janesvilleseo wrote: post #31

There is no one size fits all. I’m a believer that office time should be optional. If I was an employer I want to get the most from my people. I want to empower them with the tools they need to get the best work done they can. If that is them working at home. Fine. If it’s having a dedicated space (office) that I pay for. Fine. They are adults and can figure out what works best for them. Why would I as an employer kn…

Individuals may be able to make good decisions for themselves (though, reading this thread, I believe some WFH advocates may just be doing what's convenient, not what makes them happier in the long term), managers need to weigh what's best for the team or the company as a whole. The outcome might be the same, but not necessarily.

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#166

Post by bigpeopleareold »

ryanSrich wrote: post #133

As someone who has worked on startups, side gigs, and only around 6 months at a “real” company. I’m always blown away at how many meetings there are in corporate America. What are you even meeting about? Why aren’t you doing hands on keyboard work? Why does a decision need to be made in a room, with everyone pretending to listen? Why are you presenting something to me when I’ll comprehend it far better if I read it,…

I don't think meetings are really there for the informational value for a lot of people, but to give face time as a show of strength.

But, I do exactly what you do - I prefer something well-written and it gives me time to think about it. As someone talking to a lot of people within the company, I sometimes get asked to go on a client call. I almost always say no. It's not my job to talk to clients (and that means being ready to look good for them) and saying whatever needs to be said in a call doesn't do much that an email can't do. While being there as an "expert" to the client is probably something that customer-facing people want, I have nothing to gain from it.

Useful meetings engage people : a fresh new idea to have everyone go research more, a way to gather the team to focus on tough questions, or to explain a point better than chat messages.

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#167

Post by twobitshifter »

irrational wrote: post #51

Same. Half the people we hired during work from home are remote (that was never allowed before). Now all meetings are on zoom and all conversations are on slack. Being in an office is beyond pointless. It wastes time, gas, etc. the main take away from the past 2 years is working in an office is beyond stupid (at least for certain careers like developers). I drive to work, communicate with no one except on the compute…

It’s more than just developers, our CEO is in love with in person interactions, so now we have managers at my company who have made a zoom background of their office and work from home to try to keep up appearances. It’s the most bizarre thing. At a big enough company, everyone won’t be in the same office and you’re interacting across regions, so you’re already doing zoom/teams/emails/voicemails/ whatever pre and post pandemic. If you’re spending your day on the phone or email or in conference calls, that can be done from home.

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#168

Post by crossroadsguy »

JohnBooty wrote: post #48
crossroadsguy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people have to be (labelled) smart , don’t they? I’ve noticed this as a very American thing to say on the lines of “I’m super excited to be here” :-)

I've read your comment a few times and I'm baffled. What are you saying, here? I understand that people fake "happiness" and "respect" all the time. Yes. It's true. But... you seem to be suggesting that I am faking it here? Why? My coworkers aren't reading this. They don't know my HN handle. I have never mentioned my employer on HN. What incentive would I have to be false here? If I am misunderstanding you, please ex…

No, I didn’t mean faking it at all.

I commented as a light disagreement with:

- need to use the word “smart people” or even such a need itself

- also possibility of this being a trite - more of an unconscious habit without maybe meaning anything specific about it (again, not faking it) [1]

And more importantly it was joke kind of a retort which I think I should have been clear about. Wasn’t a personal attack in any way.

Edit: [1] e.g. like the zero day old guy saying in his intro, “I’m super excited to join you all super smart people. It’s gonna be fun”.

And as for WFH - god, I just want to go back to office - fully or hybrid!!

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#169

Post by crossroadsguy »

flurie wrote: post #56
crossroadsguy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people have to be (labelled) smart , don’t they? I’ve noticed this as a very American thing to say on the lines of “I’m super excited to be here” :-)

It could be an example of Lake Woebegon effect[1], though I'm not sure that's the case here. On the other hand, making broad proclamations about nationalities based on anecdotes has another name. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon#The_Lake_Wobegon_...

> On the other hand, making broad proclamations about nationalities based on anecdotes has another name.

You’re right. I’ll retake the humour class (skipped that during my UG) and try again later. Failed miserably here it seems. But thanks :)

Re: Employees are returning to the office to sit on zoom calls

#170

Post by benibela »

simongray wrote: post #114
irrational wrote: post #51

Same. Half the people we hired during work from home are remote (that was never allowed before). Now all meetings are on zoom and all conversations are on slack. Being in an office is beyond pointless. It wastes time, gas, etc. the main take away from the past 2 years is working in an office is beyond stupid (at least for certain careers like developers). I drive to work, communicate with no one except on the compute…

> I drive to work, communicate with no one except on the computer, then drive home. You don't talk to people aside from at the meetings?

I do not even talk in meetings

If I get an idea during a meeting, I send it as an email afterwards

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