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Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

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Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#631

Post by sgtnoodle »

djbusby wrote: post #611
sgtnoodle wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it selects for easy going people with patience, grit or humility, which seem like positive traits. It is true that companies tend to only hire the suckers that complete their full interview process. My current company ambushed me with a full interview panel, Gilligan's Island style, when a former coworker invited me to come in for a 3 hour tour. I took it in stride and had fun, and it gave me some additional lever…

What's with the skillet?

One of the interview sessions was with an industrial designer. Seemed silly to me as a software engineer but what do I know. Leading up to the interview, they asked me to bring in a photo of something I thought had elegant design. After brian storming for not very long I decided on my skillet, and I thought it would be more fun to bring it along. When they asked for my photo, I pulled it out and plopped it on the table. After the initial WTF moment, we had a lengthy and interesting discussion about the merits of cast iron cook wear. All the subsequent interviews started with, "why is there a cast iron skillet?"

Going through TSA with a cast iron skillet in your carry-on is actually pretty fun because it's impossible for the screener not to giggle. I've also gone through airport security with a 20lb printed circuit board with about 90% copper fill, which surprisingly got less scrutiny.

Having something fun to make your interview memorable seems to go over well. I got selected for an internship because I showed up to the "interview" in a Hawaiian shirt. Apparently every other candidate showed up in a suit. We were meeting at a coffee shop on a college campus, so I just dressed for the environment.

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#632

Post by dleslie »

rockemsockem wrote: post #615
dleslie wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not easy to find liars. It's easy to find who are underperforming. There's a difference between the two. Resume, references, and team meeting filters out almost everyone who needs to be fired. Folks who lie on their resume, who arrange dishonest references and who defraud their way through a meet and greet are _exceedingly rare_. It's such a vanishingly small segment of possibility that it's not worth troubling…

I don't think folks are saying that outright lies are happening very often. What is happening is resumes being written to sound impressive (obviously) and perhaps inflating the difficulty/contribution/impact of past work. Exact same thing with referrals and meet and greets. Honestly all three of those things test the exact same thing, the person's ability to sell themselves. Which is why I would not work anywhere wit…

The dirty truth is that if a candidate thinks they can perform well in a role then, most of the time, that's true. It is exceedingly rare that people apply for roles that they know they cannot deliver upon.

It's dirty because we like to believe that our technical proficiency and ability is elite and rare, but the truth is that with a little training, with a little on the ground experience, many people can do what we do.

You don't want to work somewhere where that's proven possible.

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#634

Post by stutsmansoft »

I have a similar experience level to your own, and I am equally horrified by today's interview gauntlet.

This, coupled with exploding team sizes and heavy-handed process fads, have left me to consider entrepreneurship as the only viable option from here on out.

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#635

Post by EE84M3i »

ergonaught wrote: post #363

I've built international teams, technical and otherwise, for 20 years and the reality is that unless you are hiring for an extremely specific role with extremely specific requirements, which is almost never the case in reality, any more than 3 interviews is a waste of time. Two within the same team, if relevant, one outside the team. Furthermore, evaluating anything other than "Do you want to work with this person?"…

I'm curious if local law changes your calculations. Do you feel the process should be the same regardless of how easy it is to let people go?

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#636

Post by ip26 »

py_or_dy wrote: post #111
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #3

Tech companies are extremely risk adverse when it comes to hiring the "wrong" person. More interviews means more people to spread to blame over if a wrong hire happens. At seven interviews, if everyone signed off on the bad hire, that wasn't anyone's fault, it must have been that the hire was skilled at deception or some other deflection.

Curious, what is the "wrong" person? I've worked with some co-workers before that were clearly not a fit, but it was so obvious. One time I was asked to help a new hire with a project that was falling behind. He had spent 2 months trying to get some javascript (that he copied from a project I had done) working. He didn't even know what the web console was. As soon as I opened it and saw the javascript errors the fix…

If it’s tough to fire the obvious dead weight, just think how tough it is to fire your second category. Both seem “wrong”, unless the latter examples are being judiciously messy, e.g. build revenue first perfection later.

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#637

Post by water8 »

digisign wrote: post #585
igetspam wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you handle the obvious problems of churn and reviews at places like Glassdoor? I can just see it now: "Interview was weak. They don't know what they're doing." "Aced the interview. Fired after two weeks. Leadership doesn't know how to hire or manage." "Never seen a place with so much churn. In the last six months, I've seen at least half a dozen engineers exit after two or three weeks." Know what raises the le…

Low performing folks are ubiquitous and them being let go sounds good to me, would put a plus in their column if I read that.

Yes but the damage that they’ll due to your reputation online will make you have to pay more for better talent. They are going to read the glass door and see your company environment as shit and say “I want an extra 20 grand”

Not to mention the amount of technical debt high turnover causes for tech companies

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#638

Post by confidantlake »

madamelic wrote: post #477
igetspam wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's all about everyone. If I hire a person and fire them in less than a year, that's almost always because of a performance problem that's impacting the team or the org. If you're the one being fired, you probably left a job or didn't take some other job to work with us and now you're going to be unemployed. Additionally, as a hiring manager, I too am a human who wants to enjoy my job and have positive experienc…

> Filtering early is best for everyone. This is a lie that everyone tells themselves to make them feel secure and safe. The best interview is working with the person. Do a few basic interviews for competency, give them a 2 week - month long 1099 contract and put them on guard rails for the contract duration. Their daily work isn't just about whether they can jump through time-based hoops or answer basic questions. No…

But why would I as a candidate leave my full time job to do a month long 1099 contract?

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#639

Post by dwheeler »

It depends on the organization, of course.

At my previous employer an interviewer would go through an interview panel, give a presentation, get taken out to a nice lunch with a few people (which was absolutely another interview), and 1-2 more interview panels followed by a discussion with the director. Each interview panels would have several members of the division (typically 5-6). There was no "hiring manager", intentionally so.

The whole process is more like serious dating leading to potential marriage, but there were good reasons for it. People often work on multiple projects with multiple people, and those projects would end and others begin over time, but the goal was to have people stay. It's really painful to have people leave (because their institutional knowledge left with them). In addition, nobody wanted to have to constantly work with jerks. So the goal was to try to determine if the candidate would be able to work with many other people, and vice versa. We especially wanted to know if candidates were curious (a very good sign) and could explain themselves in a presentation (because that was a common need).

We didn't invite people until we already read something they'd written & talked with them on the phone, so we tried to not invite people until they were a plausible fit.

Nothing is perfect, and it definitely required time from the interviewee, but there were reasons for it.

Re: Ask HN: When did 7 interviews become “normal”?

#640

Post by [deleted] »

MichaelBurge wrote: post #628
rascul wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of the people involved in the interview process are still getting paid Except the interviewee.

There's often a signing bonus. If there's a 10% chance of getting the job and a $50k signing bonus is common, then your EV is $5000 per interview. Even if there weren't, then 10% of the extra compensation vs. an easier-to-hire company with your discount horizon applied would also count as payment.

[deleted]
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