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Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

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Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#151

Post by Zizizizz »

throwntoday wrote: post #32
sushid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally their highly refined tried and true formula with BOTW. Hard to believe that you don't see the parallel in open world design if you've played both games.

I would not compare these two games. Death Stranding was a refined BotW. Elden Ring is a totally different game and I think comparing it to BotW is an insult to FromSoft as they actually put effort into making the open world feel full of content. BotW is 15min of riding your horse through nothing and dodging the same 2-3 enemy mobs to get to a shrine where maybe you get a fun puzzle but most likely you fight a robot…

Interesting, I'm enjoying Elden Ring a lot but still feel that Breath of the Wild is much better. I think people just have preferences for different things. Elden Ring is absolutely beautiful and the world is very detailed and creative with its art style (I am at the mountaintop of the giants level 105). I would say the combat feels worse to me. It's unnecessarily punishing and dodge rolling every enemy in some dance is very repetitive. I can't think of a boss I've fought that hasn't been the same strategy. Personally, I found there were more interesting ways to fight in Breath of the Wild using the environment and enjoyed combat more. The time it takes to move in Elden Ring just feels so slow.

The world in Elden Ring is beautiful but the controls and interactivity of the world is just lacking. I've died so many times that I never would have in botw (as the controls are precise and predictable).

Switching flasks is a pain and using them after getting hit once so you don't get killed is just so repetitive. It would be much better to have enemies hit a third of the damage and give you a third of the flasks.

Music in both is 10/10. Breath of the Wild story/characters I prefer. ER horse I prefer. ER world I prefer visually. Gameplay wise, I prefer breath of the wild's world.

Wish there was climbing, ability to destroy non furniture (of which you can't jump on to platform in this even if you wanted to). I don't like that I can't climb a two foot castle wall. If there is a chair next to the wall I just jump through it and break it.

Both are incredible games but I find the creativity, freedom, and puzzles what I look for in a game more than rolling through an absolutely stunning and detailed world.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#152

Post by Zizizizz »

anothernewdude wrote: post #72
libertine wrote: post #2

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

I got bored quickly of BoTW, not so Elden Ring. I think because there was so little to do in BoTW.

Elden Ring has far less variety than breath of the wild. Unless you count killing things in different locations variety. https://youtu.be/9EvbqxBUG_c This video gives a fraction of some of the interesting world interactions and enemy ai that I found more enjoyable as a game. You can interact with chests, doors, and levers and talk to people. I think that's it outside combat.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#153

Post by uejfiweun »

imiric wrote: post #136
MattRix wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The combat IS the driving force behind their games, even in Elden Ring. It doesn’t need all that other stuff to make the game more “rich”. It focuses everything into the combat, both in terms of the actions the player can take and the sheer variety of encounters. If you don’t enjoy the combat, then yeah, you’re not going to see the appeal. I would argue it takes quite a few hours (maybe 30?) of playing soulslike game…

Thanks, I guess like another commenter pointed out, the game/genre is just not for me. And I feel a bit hypocritical since I do enjoy roguelikes like The Binding of Isaac, which can certainly be seen as "just" exploring, grinding, leveling up and fighting enemies. Yet for some reason in those kinds of games I get more satisfaction from progressing and the mechanics feel more enjoyable, which keeps me playing for hour…

I'd say, just force yourself to beat it. This is what I did with the first Dark Souls, which got me hooked. I hated it at the start, the combat seemed clunky, and I got stuck on the first major boss for days. But the extreme adrenaline rush of beating that boss gave me the motivation to keep playing, and after many more exciting fights and encounters, I came to the realization that it was one of the best games I had ever played. But it's easy to get stuck on the first big hump, no doubt.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#154

Post by throwntoday »

Zizizizz wrote: post #151
throwntoday wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not compare these two games. Death Stranding was a refined BotW. Elden Ring is a totally different game and I think comparing it to BotW is an insult to FromSoft as they actually put effort into making the open world feel full of content. BotW is 15min of riding your horse through nothing and dodging the same 2-3 enemy mobs to get to a shrine where maybe you get a fun puzzle but most likely you fight a robot…

Interesting, I'm enjoying Elden Ring a lot but still feel that Breath of the Wild is much better. I think people just have preferences for different things. Elden Ring is absolutely beautiful and the world is very detailed and creative with its art style (I am at the mountaintop of the giants level 105). I would say the combat feels worse to me. It's unnecessarily punishing and dodge rolling every enemy in some dance…

>I found there were more interesting ways to fight in Breath of the Wild using the environment and enjoyed combat more.

Then you're missing out on half of the fun. If one playstyle is repetitive then switch your build out. Learn dragon rot, pick a colossal weapon and apply ridiculous skills to it. Choose a faith build and spam buffs until bosses can hardly scratch you while you fat roll away. It sounds like you're just bad tbh. Stick to Zelda.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#155

Post by paulryanrogers »

bspammer wrote: post #73
dmix wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tons of people liked World of Warcraft in a cult way too, Some people just like grinding.

Comparing Elden Ring to WoW is doing it a massive disservice.

Disservice to ER or WoW? Why?

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#156

Post by KTallguy »

sbcd wrote: post #124
mswtk wrote: post #110

This is just plainly false. While not quite as bad as the average Ubisoft game, Elden Ring's world design is very similar to Elder Scrolls, Skyrim in particular. Most of what the author brings up are aspects of the game not related to the open world. The open world itself is not nearly as trend-bucking as a lot of other game design decisions From Software make, which is honestly a bit disappointing. In general, Elden…

Yeah. I've finished Elden Ring, and as a long time admirer of what From Software did to revitalize the action RPG genre, I felt the open world was a deeply unnecessary addition that brings nothing but time wasters. The truly wonderful content of Elden Ring is in the areas that received the level of care all souls games have, the legacy dungeons. Stormveil, Raya Lucaria, Leyndell, the sewers.. The basic open world fie…

Thanks, this comment really made me think. I noticed a lot of the same things you did, but my impression was much less negative.

Maybe it’s because of the presentation. In many open world games the UI makes it clear that there are “X towers to climb” or “Y camps to clear”… there’s a checklist of goals. Elden Ring just lets players stumble on things as they will. Even as the map design may be similar to other open world games I feel less pressure to “do all the things”; as a result my personal journey feels more organic.

I did recognize the template pieces used in caves/mines and it did turn me off a bit. But because I’m not guided to clear all of them checkbox style it was less offensive. In a way it’s smoke and mirrors: a lack of information makes the design more mysterious than it really is.

A sibling comment mentions that the length makes multiple playthroughs a pain, but I generally am a one and done for souls games.

In another thread I commented that the open world gives a casual player more options instead of getting forever stuck on a single challenge. I think that feeling of freedom combined with faster (but buggy) movement is responsible for the broader appeal and high scores. Oh and the art direction doesn’t hurt.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#157

Post by tomnipotent »

slightwinder wrote: post #109
tomnipotent wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the open world dimension, it's dropping the player into a world with little to no training. Skyrim, GTA, and RDR2 all share the same "Main Mission" mechanic that helps keep players centered on overall story progression while leaving room for side quests and exploration. This "go there, do this, go there" cycle doesn't exist in BOTW or Elden Ring.

Not sure about Elden Ring, but BOTW has also a main-mission with story progression and location-targets you are supposed to go to. It's just not forced into your face, as there is not much of a quest-tracker and flags telling you what you are supposed to do. The main-mission is just there, but you can basically forget it without any reminder.

> It's just not forced into your face

You can think about it as how the games fall on the hand-holding spectrum. Elden Ring and BOTW are clustered closer together on the left side of "No Guidance", and the further right you go towards "Linear" you'll see the other games. Sure there's a big gap between ER and BOTW, but it's less than between BOTW and its next peer.

There's also the added dimension that Elden Ring and BOTW both share this unique quality that even random encounters can turn life-or-death, especially when running into new classes of mobs, and you have to be very patient and get absorbed into the moment or you're rewarded with death even when you're convinced you did the right thing. There's no room for quick drags of a cigarette in the middle of a fight, and instead you're rewarded with the outcome possible with incredible focus and game play experience that leaves you feeling like a superhero.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#158

Post by kibibu »

throwntoday wrote: post #146
kibibu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird that you're fighting a robot for the 100th time when there are only 6 "test of strength" shrines.

Yeah nice try dude, there at 20 test of strength shrines (of varying difficulty). Sounds like you didn't actually complete the game. I sure love when someone reviews a game they hardly even played.

Haha no I finished it at launch and couldn't remember the number, I knew it wasn't hundreds and looked it up. Clearly the site I checked was wrong and you're correct, it is 20. However, would you say "more often than not" a shrine is a test of strength? It's a nonsense claim.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#159

Post by gernb »

Geee wrote: post #106
gernb wrote: post #90

Plea for tips... I tried to play Elden Ring, no knowledge, lover of BotW, and ... I first picked Wretch. I didn't know that it matter and maybe it doesn't but it seemed more cool to start with wimpy looking character and see it get built up. But, AFAICT after getting to the first hard character in the training pit, Wretch is meant for a hard challenge So I started over with whatever the first character is (already fo…

Did you miss the tutorial? You said 'training pit', which should be it. It literally tells you what to do. Basically, use target lock, roll when enemy attacks and then try to hit.

No I didn't miss the tutorial. But I didn't need to role to beat the guy that it fails to teach you to roll on. I say fails, because in old Zelda's you literally couldn't pass a training course until you could successfully pull off the move where has here it was easy to kill the guy without using the move at all.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#160

Post by kadoban »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #149
kadoban wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games aren't for everyone, and aren't for every stage of life. Nothing wrong with that. Some of that just isn't true though. I can't remember the last single player game I really cared about the story, I mostly skip it. Gameplay is solid in _many_ games these days, or a huge variety of types. For example, Elden Ring, the story is not a lot more than: there's an Elden Ring you should go explore the world and find, hav…

Souls games have always been more about world building than story. The stuff going on in the background with small lore snippets here and there is really good, the actual story is always hardly existent.

Yeah I think in general I greatly prefer lore and worldbuilding. You can take it or leave it, as you like, it doesn't depend on going through a linear set of events, and it requires effort and awareness (and often a community).
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