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Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

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121–130 of 172 posts

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#121

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

>best open world games released in the last 20 years, [...] I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. BotW, if it wasn't for the Zelda tag in it's name, would have been judged for what it truely is: a very mediocre game. It does almost eveything wrong: the reward loop isn't satisfactory because getting a weapon that will break after a few hit feel useless, the cooking system has no tutorial and is hard to understand wiht…

Your criticism is far from unique. A ton of people criticized the game for exactly what you say.

However, those weaknesses turn into strengths for the vast majority of people. Take raining for example. I hate the rain, but I’m glad it’s there. It forces you to change your plan when it starts. Some of my most memorable moments where after the rain forced me to rethink traversal.

Weapon durability was a common critique, but once again it’s to force you to change your weapons. Not to get married to any weapon style, and to savagely throw your weapons at your enemies. I love it.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#122
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally their highly refined tried and true formula with BOTW. Hard to believe that you don't see the parallel in open world design if you've played both games.

I would not compare these two games. Death Stranding was a refined BotW. Elden Ring is a totally different game and I think comparing it to BotW is an insult to FromSoft as they actually put effort into making the open world feel full of content. BotW is 15min of riding your horse through nothing and dodging the same 2-3 enemy mobs to get to a shrine where maybe you get a fun puzzle but most likely you fight a robot…

I find it so disheartening when people reduce the influence of a game because they didn’t like it.

The main artistic voice of the game says he was inspired by BoW, yet because you don’t like it, you say it’s not an influence.

Take a step back from your own preferences when discussing art, it helps.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#123
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not compare these two games. Death Stranding was a refined BotW. Elden Ring is a totally different game and I think comparing it to BotW is an insult to FromSoft as they actually put effort into making the open world feel full of content. BotW is 15min of riding your horse through nothing and dodging the same 2-3 enemy mobs to get to a shrine where maybe you get a fun puzzle but most likely you fight a robot…

Weird that you're fighting a robot for the 100th time when there are only 6 "test of strength" shrines.

I think they’re talking about the robots in the overworld. I think it’s a poorly made critique of the small amount of enemy types.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#124
post #110

This is just plainly false. While not quite as bad as the average Ubisoft game, Elden Ring's world design is very similar to Elder Scrolls, Skyrim in particular. Most of what the author brings up are aspects of the game not related to the open world. The open world itself is not nearly as trend-bucking as a lot of other game design decisions From Software make, which is honestly a bit disappointing. In general, Elden…

Yeah. I've finished Elden Ring, and as a long time admirer of what From Software did to revitalize the action RPG genre, I felt the open world was a deeply unnecessary addition that brings nothing but time wasters.

The truly wonderful content of Elden Ring is in the areas that received the level of care all souls games have, the legacy dungeons. Stormveil, Raya Lucaria, Leyndell, the sewers..

The basic open world fields present no challenge, nothing of value, no amount of enemy ambushes can stop you from just bugging away on the horse, the areas you "explore" as you discover the world consists of copy pasted dungeon tilesets with just a few variations that were hand crafted, I've seen multiple copies that were 1:1 of some rooms in places like caves, catacombs and so on. Bosses are reused to the point of exhaustion. There's like more than 10 bosses that are essentially clones of Dark Souls 1 first boss, the Asylum Demon, just with one or two new moves, and its attack hitting you harder than the boss it clones. The game cannot receive the excuse that "you can just skip this content, it's optional" either, because it was purposefully designed to force you to do open world chores if you want to get the "full experience". Upgrading weapons other than the ones that use somber stones is very painful if you do not explore the countless repetitive mining tunnels filled with mostly the same enemies and with always a copy pasted boss at the end, where in a previous souls games the materials would be laying around in places you'd naturally traverse as you complete the game, here, the Legacy Dungeons do not offer much in the way of materials, and you would miss on a lot of game lore if you didn't complete the copy pasted content because this is, after all a souls game, and souls games have most of their writing in... item descriptions. It worked ok in a 40 hours game like Dark Souls 3 where you'd pick up items as you progress through the game. It's.. infuriating when you're told you need to do 140 hours of copy pasted content to experience the same amount of -actual- content other souls games give you.

In many ways, the side content of this game feels like.. Bloodborne's computer generated Chalice Dungeons, which were a completely optional side feature of the game that could be safely ignored and left aside. Except that this time, From removed much of the content you'd find on the normal game path, and threw it all around those new chalice dungeons. Cool weapons, unique talismans, the game lore.. if you don't do this mind numbing copy pasted content you're only getting half a game.

I know, with all the accolades this game received from the gaming press, and the sales it achieved, earning itself a large part of a new audience that never played souls games, I just know, we're never going to see a traditional game by From software anymore, and I'm sad. I don't want more open world drudgery. The world didn't need another developer to fall into this trap.

Elden Ring doesn't have the quest compass, the quest log and other "easy mode" features of a game like skyrim. But it does have the copy pasted ultra linear dungeons that you complete in 5 minutes, it does have the repeated dragon fights that are all the same except one does a breath attack with blue colors and another does flamey breath attacks. It does have the formulaic world structure - each part of the map must contain X number of objectives to do.

In Elden Ring, these are : each "square" of the map has 1 catacomb, 1 or multiple caves, tunnels, "hero tomb" with a chariot that instantly kills whatever it runs over, 1 dragon to kill, 1 Erdtree avatar or putrid tree spirit, 1 church with an upgrade for your flask, 1 tower with a ridiculously simple """puzzle""" (but often time consuming, like find three hidden turtles to kill on the island to open it), 1 evergaol with a boss you fight in an open arena...

How, exactly, is this game a breakthrough going against the grain of open world design? It doesn't go against the grain, it followed the formula to a T. Lacking the UI of mainstream games doesn't mean the world isn't designed like a Bethesda or Ubisoft game.

The only thing that is unique to Elden Ring, is the parts that was already done by every other From games. The open world of ER, though, is nothing new, nothing grounds breaking and its main purpose is to inflate the amount of playtime. I understand de gustibus and all that... but, unanimous 10/10 in the gaming press? Is that all it took? If I was a game developer at Bethesda or Ubisoft, I would be very angry with the state of the gaming press.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#125
post #57
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed - with very little googling you can find the exact same arguments as this article being made in others discussing Breath of the Wild. Lots of people have been rightly celebrating this aspect of BoTW since its release, I found it odd not to mention it as well. It was arguably an even bigger risk for Nintendo to make these radical changes back in 2017, given the sales volume a Zelda game is expected by the busin…

I don't feel BotW was as big a risk as people take it to be - it was basically single-player WoW and was done with the standard Nintendo polish. I do have to admit it was perfectly aimed at someone like me, who remembers the glory days of video games but no longer has the time or skill to play at a top level.

You’re viewing the risk from the point of view of hindsight. Of course it wasn’t a risk, what we got was successful.

Put it in context back before the game existed. The Zelda games are selling well, but they’re never Nintendo’s most successful games. What they are is Nintendo’s most revered. They have a great formula, designed by Miyamoto and polished to perfection by his successors. The critiques are getting deafening though. It’s getting too linear, the dungeons are turning slowly into content tubes, and the time spent on story is too long. What do you do? You don’t do Breath of the Wild to break the mould, you do Link Between Worlds.

Link Between Worlds is less linear, and harkens back to the SNES for its story and interaction. You take a step back from your mould, you redefine it.

But then BAM! They completely redesigned everything with Breath of The Wild. Link Between Worlds is but a mere footnote. That’s gutsy, and risky.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#126
post #124
post #110

This is just plainly false. While not quite as bad as the average Ubisoft game, Elden Ring's world design is very similar to Elder Scrolls, Skyrim in particular. Most of what the author brings up are aspects of the game not related to the open world. The open world itself is not nearly as trend-bucking as a lot of other game design decisions From Software make, which is honestly a bit disappointing. In general, Elden…

Yeah. I've finished Elden Ring, and as a long time admirer of what From Software did to revitalize the action RPG genre, I felt the open world was a deeply unnecessary addition that brings nothing but time wasters. The truly wonderful content of Elden Ring is in the areas that received the level of care all souls games have, the legacy dungeons. Stormveil, Raya Lucaria, Leyndell, the sewers.. The basic open world fie…

Yeah, that's more or less how I feel about it as well. I would even go further and say that the existence of the open world makes the Legacy Dungeons worse. It's quite unfortunate because in terms of visual design and architecture, they're some of From's best work; however, they tend to be full of the same enemies you've already fought multiple times in the open world, taking away from the feeling of venturing into the dangerous unknown that I personally find so compelling about these games.

It's also unfortunate that this looks like a game with a lot of build variety, that would really lend itself to multiple playthroughs, but actually playing through the content again sounds like a pain. Going through the wiki and making a list of places I actually need to go is not my idea of a good time.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#127

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

I'm surprised many sing high praises for BoTW. When compared to the rest of the Zelda franchise, BoTW looks unloved to me. Shrines and Korok leaves are chores and treasures are just variations of stats. In prior Zeldas, dungeons were architecturally complicated and treasures would bring a new kind of ability.

The BOTW map is insane, every nook and cranny feels unique and memorable, and the features are spaced out perfectly. There were so many times I felt like I was being clever by eating stamina items to climb a cliff or parasail further… …to find a Korok at the exact spot I “cheated” to get to.

> Shrines and Korok leaves are chores

They’re designed to be fun if you discover them naturally instead of actively trying to get them all.

Getting 13 hearts and two stamina wheels only takes about half the shrines, and I felt like I had plenty of inventory space after 200 or so Koroks, not to mention the “reward” for going to the trouble of getting all of the Koroks

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised many sing high praises for BoTW. When compared to the rest of the Zelda franchise, BoTW looks unloved to me. Shrines and Korok leaves are chores and treasures are just variations of stats. In prior Zeldas, dungeons were architecturally complicated and treasures would bring a new kind of ability.

I think you’re correctly criticizing the weakest aspect of the game: the dungeons. They are not as inventive or unique as in previous games. They all use the same textures, which is so tiring after a while. As Nintendo and Monolith Soft (the secret MVPs of that game) develop sequels based on the formula, they’ll close the dungeon gap and give us even better games. Looking at the trailers for the sequel, I’m pretty co…

I liked the puzzles in the BOTW dungeons, and nothing in them made me rage as much as Snowhead Temple, especially the very last puzzle in it

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#129

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

[dead]

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#130

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

>best open world games released in the last 20 years, [...] I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. BotW, if it wasn't for the Zelda tag in it's name, would have been judged for what it truely is: a very mediocre game. It does almost eveything wrong: the reward loop isn't satisfactory because getting a weapon that will break after a few hit feel useless, the cooking system has no tutorial and is hard to understand wiht…

[dead]
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