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Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#651

Post by nebula8804 »

skrtskrt wrote: post #366
Spooky23 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might, but they would have to be big enough to break the "conservative" alignment of resource extractors, religious fanatics and rich people. It's definitely possible in 10-20 years.

Outside of Bernie and a few others, the days of Democrats having many nationally significant politicians that are truly pro-union are pretty much gone. I don't think most people, including those that vote Democratic, have much of an illusion of the Democratic party as a friend of labor anymore. Sure the Republicans actively try to dismantle all worker protections, but the Democrats mostly stand by and say well what c…

The "few others" are a cadre of younger politicians. As millennials continue to win elections, the hope is that the tide will shift. Gen Z is even better because they have never had any illusion that this was a workable system.

Unfortunately the Boomers will cling on to power until their last dying breath. (ex. Nancy Pelosi running for re-election yet again).

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#652

Post by thathndude »

tomcam wrote: post #568

Not a big fan of most modern day unions, but I hope they unionize the shit out of Amazon. I am happy to pay more. Their treatment of the rank and file is despicable. Here in Seattle I have met very few people who enjoyed their time working at Amazon, and that includes tech folk.

At what point should we be ok with low-level Amazon jobs sucking?

I worked at a fast food restaurant. That sucked. But I was also a high school kid with no marketable skills. So I sort of understood I was “putting in my time” and this is the way it goes. I never thought “we should unionize and demand more money.”

If Amazon needs career people in these positions, they’ll be forced to treat the employees as career people and not like the fast food industry treats employees like myself.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#653

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

refurb wrote: post #506
ATsch wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that question pretty much answers itself, especially if one looks at voting demographics by income. The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. (perhaps, on a more speculative note, also a reflection of the seemingly general conservative pattern of wanting to see oneself as "normal", to the point of sometimes fabricating "silent majoritie…

The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I find this a funny criticism considered when Trump won a big swath of non-college graduates (presumably blue collar workers) he was ridiculed for having the “dumb” vote.

It's a scheme for the wealthy who the party exclusively serves to win elections by pandering with negative messaging designed to appeal to the disaffected. They can't win seats as the party of big business and special interests.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#654

Post by seibelj »

djrobstep wrote: post #640
seibelj wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are worker co-ops and communal living groups. No one forces you to join a traditional corporation. You could also (gasp!) start your own company… But that’s a lot of work!

You've misunderstood. I want to work at the company, I just don't want to be forced to contribute shareholder profits - just like you want to work at the company but don't want to be forced to contribute union dues.

The goal of a for-profit business is to make money. There are plenty of non-profits and government jobs if you don’t want to get with the program. You may be shocked to find a lot of non-profits also need to make cash to survive, however.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#655

Post by nebula8804 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #379
skrtskrt wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of Bernie and a few others, the days of Democrats having many nationally significant politicians that are truly pro-union are pretty much gone. I don't think most people, including those that vote Democratic, have much of an illusion of the Democratic party as a friend of labor anymore. Sure the Republicans actively try to dismantle all worker protections, but the Democrats mostly stand by and say well what c…

What do you expect Dems to do at the federal level if they do not have the votes in the Senate? The Democrats in democrat states have enacted paid parental leave, paid sick leave, higher minimum wages, banned non compete, and many other pro labor laws. At the federal level, the Dems got ACA pushed through also, even though they barely had the numbers and still had to compromise a lot due to just having 50 or 51 Senat…

Executive orders to get as much as they can rammed through. Then its on Republicans to repeal popular programs and suffer the consequences.

1) Reclassify Marijuana as a non schedule 1 drug. (Finally a bill got through the house today to get the ball rolling but Biden could have done this day 1)

2) Declare COVID a national emergency and use that criteria to extend Medicare temporary to the rest of the country. Lets see the Republicans try to repeal that and not get beaten down to nothing.

There are many more things he could have done but does not want to. I have typed up this list so many times that it is tiring because it has been discussed to death at this point. Biden's upcoming historic losses are completely his and his party's fault.

The current Republican strategy is to run on nothing and they are pulling ahead.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#656

Post by nebula8804 »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #467
skrtskrt wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is obviously a matter of willpower. The Republicans have no problem getting their moderate members to toe the line on their more extreme stuff. "Moderate" Republican party members would make their statements about "this isn't the way things are done' every time Trump did something crazy, but every single one folded and fell in line, every single time. If it was the priority of the Democratic national party leaders…

I think you're mistaking an electoral Catch-22 for "willpower" and desire. Because the Republican party tends to line up with rural voters, they have a statistical advantage in both the Senate and the Electoral College; because of gerrymandering, they actually have a statistical advantage in most House races, too. (That last one is more complicated, but the short version is that when Democrats are in charge of redist…

> but statistically speaking, when centrist Democrats run in those swing districts they win more often than progressive Democrats do.

Turnout is abysmal in these races. I have volunteered in multiple progressive races and it is such an uphill battle to increase turnout by even a few points. Many districts are won by brand loyalty(ie. a politician has been running for decades and so he is a known figure).

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#657

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

secabeen wrote: post #637
skrtskrt wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is obviously a matter of willpower. The Republicans have no problem getting their moderate members to toe the line on their more extreme stuff. "Moderate" Republican party members would make their statements about "this isn't the way things are done' every time Trump did something crazy, but every single one folded and fell in line, every single time. If it was the priority of the Democratic national party leaders…

> "Moderate" Republican party members would make their statements about "this isn't the way things are done' every time Trump did something crazy, but every single one folded and fell in line, every single time. The obvious counter-example to this is John McCain's vote to preserve Obamacare and sink the republication attempt to end it. Since then, despite a 2-year period where Republicans controlled house, senate and…

That doesn't offset all the political sabotage and hostage taking the Republican party has been pulling off since 94.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#658

Post by WalterBright »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #600
WalterBright wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating security with freedom. You can have security or freedom, but not both.

You absolutely can have both, because the world does not boil down to simplistic either or choices. You can argue that freedom and security are oppostite poles of a sliding scale, and most people would agree with you. But nobody wants absolute freedom (anarchy and literal lawlessness) nor does anyone want absolute security. People want degrees of both. It's a naieve mindset to think it's all or nothing.

> You absolutely can have both

It's a sliding scale between security and freedom. Every bit of security you want means giving up a corresponding freedom.

Also, most people do not include "freedom to harm others" when they're talking about freedom. I've never heard of anyone carrying a sign saying "FREEDOM" and meaning they want to be free to hurt others.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#659

Post by black_puppydog »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #644
Epa095 wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you go straight to fulfill OPs prophecy: "It seems like anti-union proponents will remind you of the bad times when unions had too much power," BTW, the way you characterise unions are interesting. Very different from how they work here in Northern Europe. I wonder if American unions really are as corrupt and screwed up as the Internet makes them sound.

It's not a matter of a union having too much power, it's a matter of why would a union have any power over me whatsoever? I didn't elect a union. If I want to work for a company and they want to hire me, how does a union have the power to tell me I can't work for them and the company can't hire me?

That's not my understanding, no. IIRC there was specific legislation that a union has to represent every worker in the shop, and that legislation was specifically introduced to misalign the incentives between workers and unions.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#660

Post by ZeroGravitas »

parineum wrote: post #578
glitchc wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax policy that benefits the select few instead of the country is a loophole.

Not if it was designed to do that. A loophole is using a thing (a loophole) for something it is not supposed to be used for but is advantageous (entry).

This is like saying a 'backdoor' isn't a backdoor because the hacker who put it there intended it to be used for nefarious purposes.
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