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Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

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Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good observation and if I may I think a great term for this is just 'sandbox' gameplay.

> this is just 'sandbox' gameplay That sums it up. Enjoyment comes from core game play mechanics, not quest content. I'd be just as happy with core Street Fighter mechanics in an open world, with no-explanation filler content between boss encounters.

A lot of games genres could make for good open worlds other than FPSes/action games/action RPG's. Would love to see a Mario open world (Bowser's Fury being a sort of proto example).

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#82
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the open world dimension, it's dropping the player into a world with little to no training. Skyrim, GTA, and RDR2 all share the same "Main Mission" mechanic that helps keep players centered on overall story progression while leaving room for side quests and exploration. This "go there, do this, go there" cycle doesn't exist in BOTW or Elden Ring.

A game that doesn’t fit this mold yet is highly entertaining is Valheim. I haven’t dome a full review of why it’s so entertaining, but I guess it combines Open world with minecraft-esque elements in a rich mythological environment.

And its easy... It not a "dark souls" or even minecraft hardness.. Its way easier.

A friend of mine installed minecraft after like 5 years or even more, he was playing it like crazy back then. He died like ten times before giving up...

I feel like new players have a hard time now in Minecraft because its full of "new mechanics" and monsters and traps and god knows what..

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Elden Ring is about as far from BOTW as you can possibly be. It's not inspired by it at all.

From the Wikipedia for Elden Ring: Miyazaki cited Fumito Ueda's work such as Shadow of the Colossus (2005) as an influence that "inspired him to create" Elden Ring, while also drawing influence from "the design and the freedom of play" in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (2017).

Even before reading this I definitely got SoC vibes - riding through a vast and empty world + that tense combo of loneliness and beauty

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#84

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

>or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button with no animations

That's something they probably picked up from Monster Hunter.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#85
post #22

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

Zelda BOTW is just the first NES Zelda for the modern era. Nintendo's open-world is the only open-world I liked. I can't get immersed in GTA's open world because I'm just a random going on a killing spree for 15 minutes then shut the game down. I hated Skyrim, the world is big but empty. There is nothing particular about the landscape that makes me want to "go there". Most of the time, I discovered areas because I wa…

No post body was provided.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#86
post #64

I used to love video games in 2010. I loved Skyrim and counterstrike. And in the last 4 years or so I have just stopped liking them. It just seems so boring. Online games are just a contest of who’s willing to sink the most time or money into oblivion. Single player games boil down to the story/writing so why not just read a book or watch a movie? And even then, why bother with a fictional story when I can read some…

I went back to older games like daggerfall (daggerfallsetup), the longest journey, some goldbox games, might and magic6-8 and so on.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#87
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One part of BOTW that really stuck out to me is how close, yet far away things felt. You know how when you look at something through a telephoto lens, things get compressed? They did that really well in BOTW. Things could look close and you could see they were there, but when you start moving towards something, there was actually a lot of ground to cover. It helped make the world seem within reach, yet distant at the…

This is what I call the "World of Warcraft" scale - because WoW was the first game where I really experienced it. The game is compressed and not actually to scale (because nobody wants to spend literally days crossing the map) but it still feels like it is large, and regions are distinct. Both BotW and WoW also made exploring the "empty" areas rewarding (they're not actually empty, and there are things to find).

> because nobody wants to spend literally days crossing the map

Weirdly, that's what every FFXI player did almost every day and for years, until they finally added fast(er) travel options in later expansions. Even using the Chocobo to increase run speed, it took 30+ minutes of travel to get to any end game content. And it was very easy to accidentally die along the way in places where nobody could resurrect you without also dying themselves, and then you would need to make the entire trip again. It was absolutely stupid and a complete waste of time, and yet I have nothing but fond memories of it.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#88
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zelda BOTW is just the first NES Zelda for the modern era. Nintendo's open-world is the only open-world I liked. I can't get immersed in GTA's open world because I'm just a random going on a killing spree for 15 minutes then shut the game down. I hated Skyrim, the world is big but empty. There is nothing particular about the landscape that makes me want to "go there". Most of the time, I discovered areas because I wa…

Quoted post unavailable.

> Zelda is a game for little girls

No need to insult the fanbase. You can just say "I don't like it".

> it just goes to show that people like different things.

Which is why I simply explained what worked for me and what didn't work for me, not saying any of my comment was an absolute truth.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#89

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

>best open world games released in the last 20 years, [...] I'm talking about Breath of the Wild.

BotW, if it wasn't for the Zelda tag in it's name, would have been judged for what it truely is: a very mediocre game. It does almost eveything wrong: the reward loop isn't satisfactory because getting a weapon that will break after a few hit feel useless, the cooking system has no tutorial and is hard to understand wihtout looking up on the internet and once understood is very tedious to use more a few time in a row, there is a lack a variety in enemies that are just copy-pasta of each other, the rain is basically stopping exploration as soon as it starts, thunder is even more infuriating: it's just a punishing mechanic that does the finger to the player, the world is big but empty, the shrines are mini-games designed by interns and feel often very out of place just as the UI (the red magnet for instance) are breaking immersion, the controls... oh the controls there are 16 different buttons + 2 joysticks (that are also clickable) on the Switch and every. single. of. them. is. used. for some action. That's 20 input to remember (I don't), bring me back the GameCube controller with its 7 buttons please! Aweful monetization too: a basic feature in an adventure game (path roamed by the player) is locked behing a DLC, and a lot of equipments are locked behind physical and expensive DLC (Amiibo). Very few memorable NPCs, forgettable music, almost no story, the list goes one.

In conclusion: this is likely the most overrated game in existence. But a Zelda (or Mario or Pokemon) in the name and people will buy it and like it whatever the quality. I regretted almost instantly spending money on it.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#90
Plea for tips... I tried to play Elden Ring, no knowledge, lover of BotW, and ... I first picked Wretch. I didn't know that it matter and maybe it doesn't but it seemed more cool to start with wimpy looking character and see it get built up. But, AFAICT after getting to the first hard character in the training pit, Wretch is meant for a hard challenge

So I started over with whatever the first character is (already forgot what they called that type of character). Jumped in the training pit again and .... got to the first hard character and died. Zero indication what I'm supposed to do. Extremely infuriating programming that it takes sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long to start from the last statue. Like gees! Literally no more than 1-2k of data changed but lazy programmers mean I have to wait way to long to try again. That's a hard punishment on dying but with zero help and zero instruction there was no way I was going to go through the torture of figuring out how to fight that first guy. Yea, I blocked with my shield but if he hits me once I'm dead because my character doesn't recover in time to get out of the way for the next hit.

I get fans love this difficulty. I hate it. It's not something that Zelda games do (I know, From Software fans will say Zelda sucks). But ugh, at least train me a little? I feel zero of this famed "it's so great because you know what you did wrong so you'll try again". No, I don't know what I did wrong. All I know is "You Died" now wait too long to see "Yo Died" again with zero help.

What am I missing?

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