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Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#551

Post by matheusmoreira »

wutbrodo wrote: post #395
closeparen wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher wages cannot make it any more possible for N+1 people to have N large plots of land close to the city center.

> large plots of land This assumption that you've smuggled in begs the entire question

Isn't that the american dream? Owning a nice house with large living spaces for a complete family, amenities such as pools and outdoor areas, garage with at least two cars?

There's a reason people living in small standardized modular pods in extremely dense skyscrapers is a staple of cyberpunk dystopias.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#552

Post by LesZedCB »

heavyset_go wrote: post #481
alexk307 wrote: post #305

> Employees cast 2,654 votes to be represented by Amazon Labor Union and 2,131 against, giving the union a win by more than 10 percentage points, according to the National Labor Relations Board. More than 8,300 workers at the building This is just sad. Just a hair over 50% of the eligible voters voted; weirdly, approximately the same voter turnout for US elections historically. Does half of any given population just…

Getting involved puts them at risk of retaliation. I wouldn't be surprised if that causes chilling effects on voter turnout or involvement in organizing.

all of which is illegal, but proving it is damn hard and expensive.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#553

Post by jotm »

umvi wrote: post #499
jdmichal wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my early 20's, I would have agreed 100% with your stance. But, you know what really gives people freedom and liberty? The freedom to fail without worrying about how they're going to keep a roof over their head and a meal on the table. Without worrying that they're one medical emergency away from losing everything they've worked for. You want people creating small, lifestyle businesses? Give them a safety net and l…

I'm not convinced. There are plenty of countries with social safety nets galore, and all of them seem to have fewer freedoms and fewer small businesses created per capita than the USA.

That's because good safety nets means people don't have to take risks on business. So that leaves only the people who want to start a business.

Who tend to leave for countries where it's easier to run a business and where they don't have to pay for the safety nets, but that's besides the point.

As for freedoms, I don't know. Not that much of a difference between US, UK and Germany from what I can tell.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#554

Post by jotm »

jdmichal wrote: post #518
umvi wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced. There are plenty of countries with social safety nets galore, and all of them seem to have fewer freedoms and fewer small businesses created per capita than the USA.

If this is any indication, the US is certainly not winning that race: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/Micr... I'm looking for a better source still, so if you find one please post it here. EDIT: I found this. Numbers are a bit old (2007), but it shows self-employment rate per capita on page 4, which is exactly the metric we're interested in discussing. https://www.cepr.net/documents/publicatio…

Do companies count as self-employed, though?

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#555

Post by SnowHill9902 »

adultSwim wrote: post #545
SnowHill9902 wrote: post #409

Unions are disastrous in some countries. See Italy, Argentina, and Brazil. Boiling pot of corruption and extortion.

Companies are disastrous in many countries. It's a broad organizational structure that can be run many different ways. I just know that at work I am alone and weak. With everyone else I would be on more equal footing with my employer. Instead of quitting, why not make my workplace better?

It’s better in the short term. After one generation or two of unions getting stronger, everybody ends up losing. There were very strong unions (and rackets) already some decades ago. See how it ended up.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#556

Post by LesZedCB »

tharne wrote: post #213
brimble wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Comparatively, European unions are much "weaker" - or maybe more accurately their purview is much smaller. They control smaller geographic regions, and in general, all of the heavy lifting for healthcare and pensions and worker rights is handled by the government. So the unions' focus is entirely on the collective bargaining piece. Also, unions tend to be more regulated - they can't carry so much bloat. All in all,…

> I'm not sure I'd call unions legally-mandated to hold 33-50% (depending on company size) of the company's board seats "weaker". That's the situation in Germany. I think that's a brilliant policy. It forces the unions to have some skin in the game. If you're on the board, you have a fiduciary responsibility to the company and it's shareholders. In the U.S., most union bosses are happy to bleed a company dry provided…

man, if you think workers holding 35-50% of the company, wait until you learn about spanish worker co-ops!

one employee = one share = one vote.

no absentee owners.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#557

Post by plandis »

mywittyname wrote: post #38
hedora wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone should have the right to collective bargaining. The US is a closed shop country, which means that, once a union is in place, it has an effective monopoly for the workers that work for one of its companies. If we switched to open shop, then unions would have to compete for membership. Of course, the existing unions are strongly against this. As an end result, everyone I know that's been a union member in the…

This is a text-book example of being a victim of your own success. People have had the perks of union membership for so long, that they no long attribute them to the union. All they see are the costs of the union. Also, I feel like it's safe to assume that you don't know any teachers or police officers? Both those groups seem to very much support their unions.

Police unions absolutely are not a good thing for society.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#558

Post by Bilal_io »

refurb wrote: post #506
ATsch wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that question pretty much answers itself, especially if one looks at voting demographics by income. The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. (perhaps, on a more speculative note, also a reflection of the seemingly general conservative pattern of wanting to see oneself as "normal", to the point of sometimes fabricating "silent majoritie…

The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I find this a funny criticism considered when Trump won a big swath of non-college graduates (presumably blue collar workers) he was ridiculed for having the “dumb” vote.

No, he was ridiculed for [loving] the dumb vote, because he said so.

https://youtu.be/Vpdt7omPoa0

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#559

Post by Ericson2314 »

wahern wrote: post #228
cool_dude85 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He explained the reason unions in the US were shrinking is that they are too powerful. They control huge pension and healthcare portfolios and can completely control the relationship with employers, especially in closed shop situations. This is interesting. I'm a government employee with a union, a pension, health insurance, the whole deal. The union does not control the pension or healthcare in any way whatsoever.…

Private corporations no longer offer pension (i.e. defined benefit) plans, so if employees want a pension it's going to be managed by a union, assuming they even have a union. That's probably for the better because these days (as opposed to 70 years ago), unions will be far more responsible managers of a pension fund than corporations, partly because of stricter government oversight. Some other countries have nationa…

The 1930s 1940s upswing wasn't so conservative, but there were some purges with the cold war and then things took a self-defeating turn.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#560

Post by glitchc »

parineum wrote: post #530
Retric wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. So, the question is if you want lower spending etc, who do you vote for? It’s not obvious. Take a corporate tax loophole, is that spending and or a form of economic control? Foreign ownership of US companies compounds this, is it giving money to foreigners or good economic policy etc.

> Take a corporate tax loophole Tax policy you disagree with isn't a loophole.

Tax policy that benefits the select few instead of the country is a loophole.
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