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Hannah Gadsby on her autism diagnosis

theguardian.com

51–60 of 101 posts

Re: Hannah Gadsby on her autism diagnosis

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autism is not an emotional cycle, it's not a circumstantial state it's a disorder determined by genetics. Either you got the genes, or you don't. Pretty binary.

Just had to call out a nuance here - Disorder is an extremely strong word. People living with ASD are not "weird" or "abnormal" in anyway whatsoever, they are just different. As a society, we accept people's genetically predetermined sexual orientation, regardless of whether it represents the majority. ASD is no different, lets avoid calling it a disorder.

To slap down my lived experience: gay and on the spectrum.

And the spectrum part is definitely a disorder. It’s a deep-down and profound inability to connect. We are a fundamentally social species, to a fundamental inability to get socialization at a visceral level is pretty disordered.

Re: Hannah Gadsby on her autism diagnosis

#52

I have spent majority of my adult life operating under the idea that I'm on the spectrum. I have no problem sharing that detail of my life as I sit in front of a computer for more than 8 hours most days and would identify as introverted and eccentric in my own ways. What I found interesting is that as I experimented with lowering my screen time and doing more analog activities, my symptoms that had me believing I was…

38 here, and really started to make headway with my spectrum issues in my early 30s.

And I think you are absolutely onto something about having “analog” activities. I started playing sports in my 30s (oh god my joints), and learning to move through real 3D space and real the subtleties of other people’s body language and movement was a real breakthrough for me.

Now…that does present a bit of a chicken/egg problem. Because I had just terrible proprioception growing up. Awful. Clumsy as all get-out. Which tends to go along with spectrum disorders.

Re: Hannah Gadsby on her autism diagnosis

#53
post #24
post #2

Her Nanette special - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aE29fiatQ0 Nanette 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWJhMnYv6Mg Can Nanette 3 be about autism?

I found these fundamentally unwatchable, but I guess there’s an audience for it.

Nanette is more an angry speech by a clever and witty person than the "comedy special" it's made out to be.

Re: Hannah Gadsby on her autism diagnosis

#54
post #5

Autism has become a catch-all for "people who are weird". "Neurotypical" is the vaguely condescending opposite. Notice the sneer when she refers to "neurotypical 'experts'". The basic idea is that people who are weird are a subjugated minority, oppressed by people with boring, normal brains. I don't doubt that Hannah Gadsby is weird but I think life is hard for everyone, including normal people. I think the struggles…

> I don't doubt that Hannah Gadsby is weird but I think life is hard for everyone, including normal people. I think the struggles she enumerates are common: most of us have crises of identity or meaning, many of us feel intense insecurity, cut off and isolated from others. This isn't to minimize her suffering, it's to say that suffering is normal. "Everyone feels those things you describe" was how coworkers and super…

[deleted]

Re: Hannah Gadsby on her autism diagnosis

#55
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found these fundamentally unwatchable, but I guess there’s an audience for it.

Nanette is more an angry speech by a clever and witty person than the "comedy special" it's made out to be.

Worked for Carlin.

Re: Hannah Gadsby on her autism diagnosis

#56
post #5

Autism has become a catch-all for "people who are weird". "Neurotypical" is the vaguely condescending opposite. Notice the sneer when she refers to "neurotypical 'experts'". The basic idea is that people who are weird are a subjugated minority, oppressed by people with boring, normal brains. I don't doubt that Hannah Gadsby is weird but I think life is hard for everyone, including normal people. I think the struggles…

You have a very acerbic approach to the notion that other people have developmental disorders apparently borne out of a persecutory delusion that they have developmental disorders solely to declare the way your brain works boring, and brandish your ignorance about them with unusual glee. If someone tells you they're dyslexic, do you lash out at them because you think they're trying to throw shade on your boring normal ability to read?

Autism is not a catch-all for people who are weird. Psychiatrists diagnose autism using a set of defined criteria where autistic people differ from the average population, where those differences are not explained by other disabilities that often result in similar differences (https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html).

It's true that we don't have a full understanding of autism, or explanations of why individuals vary in the specific symptoms they exhibit, but that doesn't mean the diagnosis is a random label applied to anyone who is weird, it means that psychiatric conditions are often difficult to understand, and that we need more scientific research to understand them better. People with schizophrenia would also be considered "weird" by most of the population, but we don't label them autistic because of that. I, and I think many others, consider Snoop Dogg a bit weird, but I wouldn't attribute that to autism; I would attribute it to his Snoop Doggness.

Gadsby isn't saying that autistic people have a monopoly on suffering, but that autistic suffering comes from a specific set of limitations, and not understanding what those limitations are, or thinking that you could just rid yourself of them through sheer force of will is very frustrating. Paraplegic people also suffer, but it's not because they have limited social cognition or hypersensitivity to sensory input, it's because they lack the use of their legs in a world largely designed for those that can walk. Paraplegia is, however, much more visible and more easily diagnosed that a developmental disorder: we can easily see that paraplegics cannot move their legs, and paraplegics can easily see what people who can walk are able to do that they can't.

Developmental disorders are much harder to see: you cannot peer inside an autistic person's brain function and see how their brain functions, and autistic people cannot see inside the workings of allistic brains to see that they're using mental "limbs" that they cannot exercise. It'd be cool if we could! but science has a ways to go before we can.

The complaint about neurotypical parents and medical professionals isn't that they're oppressing or subjugating autistic people, but that they're describing the condition from the perspective of someone who lives without it and can't easily conceptualize that experience--the diagnostic criteria can identify who has autism, but they can't describe how it's shaped their lives. For lack of a more elegant description, if you're disabled, hearing someone who shares that disability "i know that feel bro" with you helps immensely to alleviate feelings of isolation, much more than a doctor explaining the diagnostic criteria you meet.

Your strong objection to people talking about negative experiences and view that emotional repression is a virtue are yours to hold if you so desire, but I hope you understand that many people don't feel the same, and will consider you a callous, oppressive person if you try to enforce that opinion as the correct one by treating their sharing their problems as a personal attack. This isn't a criticism of your boringness for lack of a developmental disability, it's a criticism of your wanton disregard for others' experiences and unjustified, self-centered offense that they have the gall to talk about them.

Re: Hannah Gadsby on her autism diagnosis

#57
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People would rather get a diagnosis to belong to a community than be an outcast who struggles to fit in and have their gifts recognized.

Disclaimer: am on spectrum, formal diagnosis at 8yo > have their gifts recognized. Please explain how _extreme difficulty in socializing_ is a "gift".

Autistic people have gifts and personalities just like everyone else does. People I know often have found a diagnosis liberating because they can often then identify the ways that being autistic has caused them friction with non-autistic society. If nothing else, they can find tools to help them work better in their environments. But they can also work to shape the world around them to be more accessible to autistic people like themselves. And that allows them to better use their gifts and express their personalities.

The parent comment discussed communities of people who have similar struggles. I don't think they meant that the struggle is also the gift (people can make something beautiful out of their pain, but I don't think the pain itself is something to be celebrated). I think they meant that people in a community brought together by a common struggle are better able to see the uniqueness in each other, because within the community the struggle is not what defines them.

Re: Hannah Gadsby on her autism diagnosis

#58
post #52

I have spent majority of my adult life operating under the idea that I'm on the spectrum. I have no problem sharing that detail of my life as I sit in front of a computer for more than 8 hours most days and would identify as introverted and eccentric in my own ways. What I found interesting is that as I experimented with lowering my screen time and doing more analog activities, my symptoms that had me believing I was…

38 here, and really started to make headway with my spectrum issues in my early 30s. And I think you are absolutely onto something about having “analog” activities. I started playing sports in my 30s (oh god my joints) , and learning to move through real 3D space and real the subtleties of other people’s body language and movement was a real breakthrough for me. Now…that does present a bit of a chicken/egg problem. B…

> Now…that does present a bit of a chicken/egg problem. Because I had just terrible proprioception growing up. Awful. Clumsy as all get-out. Which tends to go along with spectrum disorders.

I was much the same way--absolutely abysmal at any sort of sport requiring the barest ounce of physical coordination. I semi-randomly ended up in ballet class in my early teens though, and started social dance in college because my friends did. I can't say I was amazing at those either, but not so awful as I was at youth sports, and it's developed into a great way to de-stress.

My proprioception for dance is quite good now (even if I'm still shit at remembering specific steps), and while I can't compare it to others', I'd guess that sticking with it forced my brain to compensate for whatever normal proprioception pathways it lacks by building an alternate one. Neuroplasticity is great!

It's hard to practice social basics when you're older because most of the adult population have mastered them and expect the same of others, but there are _plenty_ of people of any age who aren't any good at dancing and are trying to learn despite.

Re: Hannah Gadsby on her autism diagnosis

#59

I have spent majority of my adult life operating under the idea that I'm on the spectrum. I have no problem sharing that detail of my life as I sit in front of a computer for more than 8 hours most days and would identify as introverted and eccentric in my own ways. What I found interesting is that as I experimented with lowering my screen time and doing more analog activities, my symptoms that had me believing I was…

I played a lot of sports and I'm very much on the spectrum. I didn't have any coordination issues though. I do find physical activity makes me feel better in general but it certainly doesn't "reduce" my autism. I have gotten a lot better at dealing with it as I've gotten older though (I guess many would call this masking).

Re: Hannah Gadsby on her autism diagnosis

#60
post #22
post #5

Autism has become a catch-all for "people who are weird". "Neurotypical" is the vaguely condescending opposite. Notice the sneer when she refers to "neurotypical 'experts'". The basic idea is that people who are weird are a subjugated minority, oppressed by people with boring, normal brains. I don't doubt that Hannah Gadsby is weird but I think life is hard for everyone, including normal people. I think the struggles…

> I have a strong objection to people who freely talk about negative experiences. Some of the people I respect the most have had extremely negatives experiences but mention them only with great reluctance. There's something about that that seems right. Columns like this debase the currency: by exalting empathy and understanding as the highest values, they devalue them. I'm not sure I understand your objection. The st…

There is a personality type that derives fuel from relating their tragedies to others. To some people that can be a trait that is cloying and indicates other issues that tend to accompany this personality profile.
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