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Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#91

Post by Animats »

hedora wrote: post #5
BuckRogers wrote: post #3

I have some family members that work at Amazon, my understanding is that the conditions at Amazon are hard to pin down because some warehouses are run just fine and others are abusive. That said, everyone working a job has a right to a union. Whether there's workplace abuse going on or not. All human endeavors are corrupt, including gov't, business, and occasionally unions. Collective bargaining is something I wish I…

Everyone should have the right to collective bargaining. The US is a closed shop country, which means that, once a union is in place, it has an effective monopoly for the workers that work for one of its companies. If we switched to open shop, then unions would have to compete for membership. Of course, the existing unions are strongly against this. As an end result, everyone I know that's been a union member in the…

No, the US is not a closed shop country. Not since 1947. The US goes no further than a union shop. In a union ship, the employer can hire, the union can insist that the employee join the union, and the union must let them join.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#92

Post by throwaway684936 »

dymk wrote: post #74
equality wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much agree. Every worker should unionize, for the good of us all. Far too much power has been ceded to companies pushing for abusive working practices, that are now largely culturally normalized.

Well, no, I can bargain individually better than a group could try to on my behalf.

Your mistake is thinking a large corporation gives a single flying fuck about you as an individual employee (who's proven themselves rowdy by trying to bargain).

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#93

Post by zjaffee »

dymk wrote: post #74
equality wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much agree. Every worker should unionize, for the good of us all. Far too much power has been ceded to companies pushing for abusive working practices, that are now largely culturally normalized.

Well, no, I can bargain individually better than a group could try to on my behalf.

There are certainly areas where this isn't true in the tech industry. It's very rare that an engineer can just say that they will no longer be willing to do on call work for example while staying on a team that maintains an online service. You can always ask for more money, but that's not everything that would be on a negotiating table.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#94

Post by softfalcon »

jefurii wrote: post #55
londons_explore wrote: post #34

Can Amazon now just shut down that warehouse and fire all the workers? It would seem like a sensible business move, even if it involves a little bit of service disruption for users in New York.

Are you advocating this course of action?

I don’t think they are, they’re just worried about what might happen if Amazon brings down the ban hammer.

Please don’t ask leading questions like this, they’re not helpful to the discussion.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#95

Post by brimble »

jedberg wrote: post #43
mywittyname wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a text-book example of being a victim of your own success. People have had the perks of union membership for so long, that they no long attribute them to the union. All they see are the costs of the union. Also, I feel like it's safe to assume that you don't know any teachers or police officers? Both those groups seem to very much support their unions.

Most teachers I know, and I know a lot of them, don't really like their union because their union is ineffective. If it actually worked for them, they'd be making wages commensurate with their required education levels.

This seems to vary a ton state-by-state or even city-by-city. I can confirm that in my (red, midwestern) state the teachers union is totally fucking worthless. NEA's a little better, but neither is interested in actually working against things like pay freezes that are never undone, violations of contracts, et c. Not here, anyway.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#96

Post by hackerfromthefu »

coolso wrote: post #27
hn_version_0023 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NY Times prides itself on its 5th grade reading level.

Trash talk the Times however you see fit and I'll probably back you up on it (they are laughably liberally/"progressive"ly biased, and continuing to run cover for the current administration as best they can despite it not really working as per the polls), their writing standards are, in my opinion, impeccable and a standout among news organizations, but I suppose not everyone can be perfect always.

Sentence, long

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#97

Post by zjaffee »

colinmhayes wrote: post #49
londons_explore wrote: post #34

Can Amazon now just shut down that warehouse and fire all the workers? It would seem like a sensible business move, even if it involves a little bit of service disruption for users in New York.

Yes, but I believe this warehouse employs 8,000 of people. It would probably cost hundreds of millions to rebuild it which is what they'd have to do in this situation. Might be worth it for them, but they'd take a huge pr hit which could tip the scales to not shutting down the warehouse. I think it's likely they build smaller warehouses in the future to make a shut down in response to unionization more palatable.

8300 is just the size of the bargaining unit, there are almost certainly far more people working there than just that.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#98

Post by brimble »

ceejayoz wrote: post #52
jedberg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most teachers I know, and I know a lot of them, don't really like their union because their union is ineffective. If it actually worked for them, they'd be making wages commensurate with their required education levels.

Wages are typically one of many priorities for a union. I know a couple teachers who tried the charter school thing and discovered non-union teaching has its own issues.

Non-elite private schools often have worse comp and/or working conditions than public schools in the same area. Which is surprising to some who assume "private school = big bucks", but there are lots of charter schools or religious private schools (which is most private schools, AFAIK) where that's definitely not the case.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#99

Post by hmfrh »

dymk wrote: post #74
equality wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much agree. Every worker should unionize, for the good of us all. Far too much power has been ceded to companies pushing for abusive working practices, that are now largely culturally normalized.

Well, no, I can bargain individually better than a group could try to on my behalf.

You probably think that you do, but in reality you don't.

Large corporations have been proven to fix wages for tech workers[1]. There's literally no way that you could have any possible way of bargaining your way around that as a single person.

[1]: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/04/24/306592297...

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#100

Post by dymk »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #89
dymk wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, no, I can bargain individually better than a group could try to on my behalf.

So you can singlehandedly get a corporation to improve their working conditions? That's incredible

The company caters to _me_, not the other way around. Welcome to being in a high-demand job.
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