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In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

vitalik.ca

161–170 of 234 posts

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't like it because it's possible to lose? Are all of your other physical possessions immune from being lost?

There's a reason people keep their financial assets in a bank or other such institution, rather than cash under the mattress.

In which case: do you think it's impossible for a bank to vault Bitcoin with the same level of security as traditional money?

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't like it because it's possible to lose? Are all of your other physical possessions immune from being lost?

Bitcoin is not a physical possession. My money right now is (mostly) not a physical possession either. It exists as a non-blockchain ledger entry in bank's computer system, and cannot be lost as easily as crypto currency, even if I make a mistake like forgetting my password.

Bitcoin, just like traditional money, can exist as a non-blockchain ledger entry in bank's computer system. This is how most exchanges and custodial wallets work.

The difference is, you can also self-custody your Bitcoin. Obviously what's in your custody is just a private key; but for all intents and purposes that is self-custody. You are the sole person in control of those coins.

So Bitcoin gives you the choice of how you want to store it. Traditional money does not give you that choice. At a certain point there are physical and practical limits to how much cash you can self-custody (not to mention transport or transfer from one place or person to another).

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#163
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Torvalds has apologized for past toxic and the damage it incurred, behavior and has vowed to do better from then on.

Vitalik proposed a theory that the toxicity is a valid and perhaps even necessary defense mechanism. I don't pretend to know whether Vitalik's theory is true, but it certainly seems plausible. And defending linux from bad actors is a herculean task. If Torvald's toxicity helped him in that endeavor, his apology would be a negative development. Interestingly, the Rust community has had incredible success being explici…

It seems to me the threat model of Rust is a magnitude safer than that of Bitcoin under assumption that Bitcoin was to become a global store of wealth. Toxicity acts as a shield to protect against social attacks from the big players which may try to, in some way, capture control of the network or influence its direction. And there are very good incentives to try and do that. It's also why it's important for the protocol to ossify over time and become even more conservative. Rust, as well as the vast majority of open source communities, doesn't really need that these levels of toxicity to survive in the long run because the attack vectors aren't on the same level (although still very important to deflect attacks because there are other incentives in play). At least it seems to me to be this way, I'll gladly listen to a counter-argument.

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see no value in having a currency that can't be inflated on a whim by your government? As in, the printing of money that reduces the purchasing power of the money sitting in your bank account. Really?

Bitcoin is not and never can be currency.

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your comment. Is there a meaningful difference between having "access to your wallet's funds" and being able to "transact"?

Well the parent claimed they would be rendered penniless. If you're temporarily unable to transact you're not penniless.

please read the linked article and rebut what they are saying.

> Both sides of the Bitcoin network would carry on working (although if there was an unequal divide, one side might be slowed so much that it became unusable). Let’s imagine this carried on for a few days or weeks before connections were properly restored. At this point we would have two divergent “branches” of the blockchain, which is not allowed. By design, there is no way to merge the branches, and Bitcoin will simply pick whichever of the two branches happens to be the longest. For the unlucky half, all transactions that happened during those days or weeks of network partition would be erased.

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#166
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the only way you can profit with real estate is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme. Literally the only way you can profit with stocks is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme.

> Literally the only way you can profit with real estate is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme. Except, of course, if you live in it, rent it out or use it as businesses asset. Good luck doing that with crypto. > Literally the only way you can profit with stocks is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme.…

What does that have to do with the original point?

- Real estate has real-world use cases

- Stocks have real-world use cases

- Bitcoin has real-world use cases

It's meaningless to describe any of these as pyramid schemes because "to profit you must be able to sell at a higher price to someone else". That's true of buying or selling anything.

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#167
Who would have thought Vitalik would have been the first human(?) to pass an Intellectual Turing Test of mimicking his ideological opponent? Laudably, he seeks only to remove the beam from his own eye [0], and turns criticism not only on his own public persona, but his own team's legacy and design decisions, and even steelmans the more "seedy" aspects of bitcoin culture.

It's hard not to see the massive influence of Scott Alexander in the way Vitalik presents his ideas and structures his essay. One SSC meme that kept coming up in my mind as I read the essay is that "ideas are soldiers" [1] is certainly in play with the blockchain wars. It's refreshing to see we have leaders in this space that can recognize the bravery of the enemy's soldiers. At least for today!

[0]: https://biblehub.com/matthew/7-5.htm

[1]: https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/arguments-as-soldiers

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#168
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the only way you can profit with crypto is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme.

> Literally the only way you can profit with crypto is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme. How does that differ from other commodities trading? The only way to profit in the futures market is to buy low and sell high, too, for instance.

Commodities are eventually consumed or used. Traders don't buy wheat futures for the joy of collecting wheat futures, they buy them because eventually some business wants to buy and use the actual wheat.

The "and use" phrase is what differentiates commodities from cryptocurrency.

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#169
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vitalik proposed a theory that the toxicity is a valid and perhaps even necessary defense mechanism. I don't pretend to know whether Vitalik's theory is true, but it certainly seems plausible. And defending linux from bad actors is a herculean task. If Torvald's toxicity helped him in that endeavor, his apology would be a negative development. Interestingly, the Rust community has had incredible success being explici…

> Vitalik proposed a theory... That is not at all original to Vitalik. It pre-exists in the bitcoin community and maybe is even older than that.

[deleted]

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#170
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Literally the only way you can profit with real estate is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme. Except, of course, if you live in it, rent it out or use it as businesses asset. Good luck doing that with crypto. > Literally the only way you can profit with stocks is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme.…

Actually you can rent out crypto (to short sellers).

A nice example of how the winners in the gold rush aren’t the suckers but the people selling stuff to the suckers.
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