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In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

vitalik.ca

151–160 of 234 posts

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#151
post #84

People still don't understand cryptocurrencies, and at this point it seems more like intentional obtuseness for political reasons. At the same time, cryptocurrencies still haven't provided a killer app that shuts everyone up. So, IMO that's the only real thing that matters. Either you build something with it that's useful - or it isn't useful. I understand that it's difficult because of all the infrastructure require…

Bitcoin started in 2008, 14 years ago.

The Internet was opened to commercial use, in 1993. That is 29 years ago.

Bitcoin is half the age of the commercial Internet, so Bitcoin is no longer new.

14 years after the opening of the Internet to commercial use, Google was well established, Facebook and Twitter were rising rapidly, MySpace and Digg had already peaked but still had huge audiences. Amazon had already become a behemoth.

How many more years can people continue to claim "crypto is so new, it hasn't had time yet to establish a killer app"?

All of these industries had become major industries within 14 years of their discovery:

telephones, 1876, big industry by 1890

automobiles, 1886, big industry by 1900

The industry with the longest struggle to get the technology "good enough" was perhaps radio with modulation to carry the human voice, 1906 first proof of concept, the industry took off in 1920.

The point is, 14 years after their discovery, everyone could easily tell you what cars, telephones and commercial radio was for. The utility was obvious to everyone. But cryptocurrencies are still struggling to come up with a straightforward use case that people can understand.

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#152
So the creator of Ethereum makes (imo) a very impressive steelman argument against Ethereum (and most other coins). He clearly took some time with this. Pretty interesting take on the April Fools joke.

I sincerely understand Bitcoin maximalism now better than I have before.

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#153
post #103
post #102

So the author points to a link claiming 12% of Ukrainians own crypto, yet triple-a creates a circular reference in trying to substantiate this claim: - The author refers to: https://triple-a.io/crypto-ownership-ukraine/ - This link calls it an estimate: "It is estimated that over 5.5 million people, 12.7% of Ukraine’s total population, currently own cryptocurrency.(1)" - Link (1) points to https://triple-a.io/crypto-…

This is literally an april fools joke...

Given the work he put into it, I took it as a serious steelman argument regardless so I figured he'd give his all for making the case.

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#154

So the creator of Ethereum makes (imo) a very impressive steelman argument against Ethereum (and most other coins). He clearly took some time with this. Pretty interesting take on the April Fools joke. I sincerely understand Bitcoin maximalism now better than I have before.

Keep in mind, before he started Ethereum, back in 2011 Vitalik started Bitcoin Magazine.

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#156
post #84

People still don't understand cryptocurrencies, and at this point it seems more like intentional obtuseness for political reasons. At the same time, cryptocurrencies still haven't provided a killer app that shuts everyone up. So, IMO that's the only real thing that matters. Either you build something with it that's useful - or it isn't useful. I understand that it's difficult because of all the infrastructure require…

I think as you start to hear about stories from people in (just as an example) Ukraine escaping and being able to take their wealth with them, you're seeing the principal "killer app". It's the same "killer app" as burying gold in a secret location. It only comes up in emergencies.

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#157
post #84

People still don't understand cryptocurrencies, and at this point it seems more like intentional obtuseness for political reasons. At the same time, cryptocurrencies still haven't provided a killer app that shuts everyone up. So, IMO that's the only real thing that matters. Either you build something with it that's useful - or it isn't useful. I understand that it's difficult because of all the infrastructure require…

> At the same time, cryptocurrencies still haven't provided a killer app that shuts everyone up. I disagree. The killer app is cash and that use case was intentionally killed by the bitcoin maximalists.

Have you used the Lightning Network?

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#158
post #84

People still don't understand cryptocurrencies, and at this point it seems more like intentional obtuseness for political reasons. At the same time, cryptocurrencies still haven't provided a killer app that shuts everyone up. So, IMO that's the only real thing that matters. Either you build something with it that's useful - or it isn't useful. I understand that it's difficult because of all the infrastructure require…

Bitcoin started in 2008, 14 years ago. The Internet was opened to commercial use, in 1993. That is 29 years ago. Bitcoin is half the age of the commercial Internet, so Bitcoin is no longer new. 14 years after the opening of the Internet to commercial use, Google was well established, Facebook and Twitter were rising rapidly, MySpace and Digg had already peaked but still had huge audiences. Amazon had already become a…

They really aren’t. The store of value is the use case. Now you may not have confidence that the social contract for that value will persist. I personally don’t have a high degree of confidence. But to continue to ignore that this itself isn’t the value add is obtuse to the realities of political turmoil.

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#159
post #84

People still don't understand cryptocurrencies, and at this point it seems more like intentional obtuseness for political reasons. At the same time, cryptocurrencies still haven't provided a killer app that shuts everyone up. So, IMO that's the only real thing that matters. Either you build something with it that's useful - or it isn't useful. I understand that it's difficult because of all the infrastructure require…

Bitcoin started in 2008, 14 years ago. The Internet was opened to commercial use, in 1993. That is 29 years ago. Bitcoin is half the age of the commercial Internet, so Bitcoin is no longer new. 14 years after the opening of the Internet to commercial use, Google was well established, Facebook and Twitter were rising rapidly, MySpace and Digg had already peaked but still had huge audiences. Amazon had already become a…

“The migration of the ARPANET to TCP/IP was officially completed on flag day January 1, 1983, when the new protocols were permanently activated.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_protocol_suite

Re: In Defense of Bitcoin Maximalism

#160
post #140
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn't difficult to set up multisignature wallets I don't think setting up the wallet is the hardest part. The hardest part would be to get into a legally binding agreement with the other parties, that you depend on from now on to access your "wealth", the very situation that crypto-currencies were supposed to avert.

How is that any harder than getting into a legally binding agreement with anyone else about anything else under the existing system? You can make sure they don't have enough of the keys to move your funds without your consent. Making a legally binding agreement that they have to give you access to the key they have if/when you demand it is no more complex a legal task than any other instance where you trust someone t…

> How is that any harder than getting into a legally binding agreement with anyone else about anything else under the existing system?

I never said it was harder. I'm merely pointing out that the proposed solution to this particular usability issue that crypto-currencies suffer from involves reverting back to a web of mutual obligations enforced by courts of justice, which entirely defeats the purpose of using a crypto-currency.

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