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Ask HN: What data structure does our brain use?

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Re: Ask HN: What data structure does our brain use?

#31

Post by gregdetre »

gregdetre wrote: post #29

There are so many differences that one's standard intuitions as a computer scientist can be very misleading... I wrote on this elsewhere: http://blog.memrise.com/2011/05/how-is-memory-stored-in-brai... http://blog.memrise.com/2011/05/how-are-brains-different-fro... For instance: - Storage and parallel computation in the brain are very expansive and cheap, so the brain prefers to store rather than compute where it can…

If you're interested in pursuing this, I'd start here (Ken was my former PhD advisor, but I still think this is a rich but comprehensible introduction):

http://psych.colorado.edu/~oreilly/papers/OReillyNorman02_ti...

Re: Ask HN: What data structure does our brain use?

#32

Post by Cushman »

gmt2027 wrote: post #14

Short answer: A graph. All data structures are simplified graphs. The state of the physical universe is a massive graph in which interconnected objects are themselves massive assemblies of graphs of atoms and the atoms are graphs of subatomic particles. It's graphs all the way down. The properties of all systems - physical, chemical, economic, biological - emerge from the interactions between simple connected element…

How do you account for the fundamentally non-deterministic nature of the universe?

Re: Ask HN: What data structure does our brain use?

#33

Post by vga15 »

gregdetre wrote: post #30
gregdetre wrote: post #29

There are so many differences that one's standard intuitions as a computer scientist can be very misleading... I wrote on this elsewhere: http://blog.memrise.com/2011/05/how-is-memory-stored-in-brai... http://blog.memrise.com/2011/05/how-are-brains-different-fro... For instance: - Storage and parallel computation in the brain are very expansive and cheap, so the brain prefers to store rather than compute where it can…

It's also very, very high-dimensional. Imagine a gigantic space, where similar thoughts could be placed next to one another. Thinking would be moving around this space. Free association would be taking a step or two in a random direction. Comparison would be a vector. This captures a little of the nature of semantic representations (storage of meanings and concepts). But of course, semantic representations differ hug…

Thank you for describing it so well here. [http://blog.memrise.com/2011/05/how-is-memory-stored-in-brai...] The actor/play analogy worked memorably well.

Haven't heard of memrise before. Yet, having read your posts, I can't wait to try it out.

Re: Ask HN: What data structure does our brain use?

#34

Post by Cushman »

gregdetre wrote: post #29

There are so many differences that one's standard intuitions as a computer scientist can be very misleading... I wrote on this elsewhere: http://blog.memrise.com/2011/05/how-is-memory-stored-in-brai... http://blog.memrise.com/2011/05/how-are-brains-different-fro... For instance: - Storage and parallel computation in the brain are very expansive and cheap, so the brain prefers to store rather than compute where it can…

What does it say about me that that all makes perfect intuitive sense?

As computer scientists, we get really attached to binary logic because that's how computers work. I think sometimes it doesnt occur to us that it might not actually be the best way to model the universe.

Re: Ask HN: What data structure does our brain use?

#35

Post by akg0 »

Cushman wrote: post #32
gmt2027 wrote: post #14

Short answer: A graph. All data structures are simplified graphs. The state of the physical universe is a massive graph in which interconnected objects are themselves massive assemblies of graphs of atoms and the atoms are graphs of subatomic particles. It's graphs all the way down. The properties of all systems - physical, chemical, economic, biological - emerge from the interactions between simple connected element…

How do you account for the fundamentally non-deterministic nature of the universe?

First, non-determinism would have to be demonstrated.

Re: Ask HN: What data structure does our brain use?

#36

Post by aufreak3 »

The most recent claim in this that I've heard about and on which people are willing to bet money is Numenta's "Hierarchical Temporal Memory" = "HTM". Jeff Hawkins (of Palm's Graffiti fame) is behind this and he also wrote a book called "On Intelligence" which discusses some of these ideas.

It looks like Numenta is making some steady progress in trying to commercialize its HTM technology as well.

Re: Ask HN: What data structure does our brain use?

#37

Post by gmt2027 »

shasta wrote: post #24
gmt2027 wrote: post #14

Short answer: A graph. All data structures are simplified graphs. The state of the physical universe is a massive graph in which interconnected objects are themselves massive assemblies of graphs of atoms and the atoms are graphs of subatomic particles. It's graphs all the way down. The properties of all systems - physical, chemical, economic, biological - emerge from the interactions between simple connected element…

And a graph is a relation, and a relation is a function, etc. Just because you can model everything with graphs doesn't make them special. You can model everything with lots of things.

I believe we are considering an abstract data structure here.

Re: Ask HN: What data structure does our brain use?

#38

Post by gmt2027 »

Cushman wrote: post #32
gmt2027 wrote: post #14

Short answer: A graph. All data structures are simplified graphs. The state of the physical universe is a massive graph in which interconnected objects are themselves massive assemblies of graphs of atoms and the atoms are graphs of subatomic particles. It's graphs all the way down. The properties of all systems - physical, chemical, economic, biological - emerge from the interactions between simple connected element…

How do you account for the fundamentally non-deterministic nature of the universe?

Actually representing the entire state of the universe sounds rather ambitious. However, the very action of 'imaging' will force the entire system into a consistent state by quantum collapse. The universe will be represented but changed, the original multitude of super-imposed states will be lost.

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle implies that some things are just unknowable. However, only the most basic constituents of physical reality demonstrate noticeable quantum behaviour. The macroscopic universe is fairly deterministic. You don't need to jump in front of a moving bus to learn that Newtonian mechanics applies 100% of the time in a very deterministic way.

Re: Ask HN: What data structure does our brain use?

#40

Post by gmt2027 »

gregdetre wrote: post #29

There are so many differences that one's standard intuitions as a computer scientist can be very misleading... I wrote on this elsewhere: http://blog.memrise.com/2011/05/how-is-memory-stored-in-brai... http://blog.memrise.com/2011/05/how-are-brains-different-fro... For instance: - Storage and parallel computation in the brain are very expansive and cheap, so the brain prefers to store rather than compute where it can…

Can you distinguish between the storage schemes in short vs. long term memory? A transition takes place at some point. Long-term storage may not be the best indicator of actual structures used in working memory, which is where the computation actually happens.

Also, content-addressability may be implemented fairly independently of the actual structure, that is an encoding problem that is analogous to an error correcting code in a higher dimensional vector space.

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