I'm a scam prevention expert and I got scammed • Hacker News Board

Re: I'm a scam prevention expert and I got scammed

#511

Post by ptha » Fri, Apr 01, 2022, 1:45 PM UTC

kevincox wrote: post #497

hunter2_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> always says "You will never be asked for this code" and everytime they ask for it. Yes, but the real meaning behind that phrase is "You will only be asked for this code by pages served by our domain name or a native app we published." It's unfortunate brevity.

Maybe it would be better to send a link. Then it can't be sent to the wrong domain. Of course you need to then educate people that they shouldn't trust the domain they land one and always immediately close the tab. Even if that tab says "Warning you have a fraud alert on your account. Click here to check your recent transactions"

Unfortunately, there are all sorts of ways to phish links. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phishing#Link_manipulation

The link may look similar or even appear identical, and still be under control of the scammer.

Similar to just not trusting incoming phone calls, you can't really trust incoming links via standard email, without some definitive way of validating the sender.

Re: I'm a scam prevention expert and I got scammed

#512

Post by r0fl » Fri, Apr 01, 2022, 2:04 PM UTC

fphhotchips wrote: post #404

r0fl wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent, simple advice! I don’t believe anyone who calls me with a problem, ever! Overdue bill? Okay cool thanks, I’ll call back and ask to speak to someone, hang up. Compromised card? Okay cool thanks, I’ll call the number on the back of my visa, hang up. (This one happened to me) Relative in another country is dying of cancer and needs money for some obscure procedure and doesn’t want to tell anyone else about it…

> Hi, the government is giving $5000 credits for people to add insulation, blah blah blah. This is... occasionally a real thing. Drives me nuts that they choose to implement it this way though.

I just don't care. I don't want to risk getting scammed for a few bucks that I was not expecting. Give the $5000 to someone else, I'm fine.

Re: I'm a scam prevention expert and I got scammed

#513

Post by dahart » Fri, Apr 01, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

verve_rat wrote: post #186

bubblethink wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be the classic underdog problem. The traditional retailers that you like today will become third party marketplaces tomorrow if they grow. So the issue is that we only get good service from underdogs and it is destined to fail once the underdog is not an underdog anymore.

That doesn't follow. Just because an online retailer grows it doesn't mean they have to start allowing third-party sellers. In fact, seeing what is happening to Amazon's reputation, that seems like a bad long term move. Short termisum might win out, but it is not a foregone conclusion.

> Just because an online retailer grows it doesn’t mean they have to start allowing third-party sellers.

Why do you believe this? Not one of the top 10 online retailers in the US doesn’t have third party sellers. It appears to be the case in practice that growing does require opening the doors to anyone and everyone, which obviously increases the scale of business a retailer can offer. There are both reasons and evidence to suggest third party sales are what it takes to grow to even one hundredth the size of Amazon.

> seeing what is happening to Amazon’s reputation, that seems like a bad long term move.

This seems like a big assumption. There is a very long list of corporations and monopolies with relatively bad reputations that are doing just fine and have for a long time. Reputation isn’t a good measure for the success or future prospects of a company, once it gets large enough.

Re: I'm a scam prevention expert and I got scammed

#514

Post by dwild » Fri, Apr 01, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

> even offered to transfer me to his supervisor, which is not something a scammer would usually be able to do, but I had not yet actually challenged any of it.

This tactic is actually used by so many scammer, it's weird that a scam prevention expert is saying that kind of things. His sentence prove how effective transferring it to someone else is powerful, how could they transfer us to a supervisor?!

They are working in call centers, they just give their phone to someone else, often time someone with more experience with scams thus better to convince you. In some case I have seen situation where they use that tactic as good cop / bad cop, where the first one is threatening, this bad thing will happens if you don't act quick, etc... and the next one is more on your side, he believe you, but you need to works with him. I even seen some where they say that they have no other choice but to open a police report with your local police, and ask you your local police phone number, act like they talk with them on a second phone (as if they couldn't put you on hold and initiate the call directly on their system) and then say that the police want to talk with you and they will call you directly (I guess using fake caller id again but with the police phone number).

It's all part of their tactic.

Re: I'm a scam prevention expert and I got scammed

#515

Post by cameronhowe » Fri, Apr 01, 2022, 2:40 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #12

rolobio wrote: post #6

I nearly got taken by a scammer because Amazon transferred me to one. I purchased a set of Reolink cameras on Amazon, (they've been great) one of them failed a couple months in. I contacted Amazon customer support (via my Amazon login and in their interface) and they wanted to troubleshoot with their technical team. Eventually the (very helpful) Amazon technician suggested contacting Reolink for support and started a…

> I was blown away that Amazon would transfer me to a scammer. I contacted Amazon again and let them know what had happened. Hopefully they will figure out how their guy got this scammers phone number and teach him how to find a 3rd party phone number... 1) Amazon is complicit in shady behavior on their platform, whether it's inventory commingling, sketchy sellers repurposing existing, well-reviewed listings for a to…

I got bitten by this bundle of reviews thing. Amazon was made available in my country some time ago. I went on there to buy video capture device to help convert my parents old tapes to video. I found the device listing I was looking for, with good reviews. Placed my order.

Then a counterfeit showed up, completely different from the spec sheet and the image on the listing.

I filed a complaint, but they wouldn't give me my money back unless I paid to ship it back to half way across the continent, where they sent it from. Despite them just sending me a piece of electronic waste rather than the real product. Nor would they do anything about the listing.

Never looked back at their scam website again.

Re: I'm a scam prevention expert and I got scammed

#516

Post by david422 » Fri, Apr 01, 2022, 3:02 PM UTC

mitchdoogle wrote: post #455

david422 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, how do you know what the right number is though? Everybody outsources their stuff. The real website is at jordans-eatery.outsourcedsite.com. Or maybe the guy at jordans-eatery.seo.com is taking calls and placing orders to the real site at a markup. Or maybe the real number is on jordans-eatery.com. Or maybe it's none of those.

Easy, go to the restaurant in person and order takeout or dine in if you want. On your way out ask them what their official website and phone number are. Then you can put them on your "safe to order from' list

Sure, and I agree that this is really the only way, but also isn't super practical for a lot of things.

Re: I'm a scam prevention expert and I got scammed

#517

Post by HWR_14 » Fri, Apr 01, 2022, 3:29 PM UTC

klik99 wrote: post #21

There's one easy rule that could have avoided all of this - never give out any info on incoming calls. If I get a call or text about fraudulent transactions, I'll keep them on hold while I log into the bank website. If I get a call about a late payment, I'll thank them for the info and ask them to stay on while I pay online. If I get an inbound call with a more complex request, I'll ask them for their employee info a…

I find there being little risk to giving a yes/no for "is this charge fraudulent" although maybe that's a higher risk than I anticipate.

Re: I'm a scam prevention expert and I got scammed

#518

Post by Nextgrid » Fri, Apr 01, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

cameronhowe wrote: post #515

Nextgrid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was blown away that Amazon would transfer me to a scammer. I contacted Amazon again and let them know what had happened. Hopefully they will figure out how their guy got this scammers phone number and teach him how to find a 3rd party phone number... 1) Amazon is complicit in shady behavior on their platform, whether it's inventory commingling, sketchy sellers repurposing existing, well-reviewed listings for a to…

I got bitten by this bundle of reviews thing. Amazon was made available in my country some time ago. I went on there to buy video capture device to help convert my parents old tapes to video. I found the device listing I was looking for, with good reviews. Placed my order. Then a counterfeit showed up, completely different from the spec sheet and the image on the listing. I filed a complaint, but they wouldn't give m…

Disputing the transaction with your card issuer is the only answer companies will understand. The company wins as long as more users eat the losses (essentially giving Amazon free money) than those actively fighting for their money back.

Re: I'm a scam prevention expert and I got scammed

#519

Post by pbhjpbhj » Fri, Apr 01, 2022, 4:22 PM UTC

Wistar wrote: post #356

rhizome wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never take restaurant phone numbers directly off of Google, I always check their (hopefully existent) website before calling, or at least crosscheck it against other sources. There is no way Grubhub or any of the other mediating greedholes will get even Caller ID data from me if I can help it.

Related. Finding real locksmiths has become so difficult that I have resorted to calling a business across the street and asking them to tell me if there is, in fact, a locksmith at the purported location. Maybe there is a business in physically verifying a given business is the actually the real thing.

Google used to send a postcard to a business address before adding a listing (in UK at least). Do they not do that now?

Re: I'm a scam prevention expert and I got scammed

#520

Post by ashtonkem » Fri, Apr 01, 2022, 4:38 PM UTC

imtringued wrote: post #486

ashtonkem wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how many fake products amazon sells and intermingles with legitimate products, it isn’t at all surprising that they forwarded you to a scammer. They just don’t care about protecting their customers, apparently.

They don't care about protecting third party brands. They will definitively make sure their Amazon Basics products are free of scams.

For me it’s less about them not caring about third party brands, and more about them not caring about protecting their customers from scams and fakes.