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Twitter user sentenced to 150 hours of community service in UK

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Re: Twitter user sentenced to 150 hours of community service in UK

#91

Post by rgoulter »

hwers wrote: post #62
trashtester wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with banning things like "racism" is that words change meaning over time. Maybe some time in the future, any reference to "White Privlege" may be considered racist, for instance.

Or that these days even people of color saying the n word is condemned, whereas just a few years ago (months?) it was sort of accepted. Making that into a legal doctrine would be quite tricky.

John McWhorter wrote an article discussing the word.

e.g. The head of the NAACP used the word in 2003. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/30/opinion/john-mcwhorter-n-...

Re: Twitter user sentenced to 150 hours of community service in UK

#92

Post by matthewmacleod »

heurisko wrote: post #82
gonzo41 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

White working class boys in the UK are amongst the least likely to go to university in the UK, they don't have a privilege for being white. I think terms like white privilege drive resentment and are divisive. "In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race..." Barack Obama. htt…

they don't have a privilege for being white.

As a white (and formerly working class) boy from the UK, I can confidently say that nobody has at any point in my life discriminated against me on the basis of my ethnic background. That is the extent of what this expression means – it does not mean that any individual to whom it applied is in a superior position relative to others, but only that they do not suffer from disadvantage due to one specific thing.

There is a stubborn desire to ignore this distinction, and the reason that these terms become divisive is because people are too often manipulated into misrepresenting them.

Re: Twitter user sentenced to 150 hours of community service in UK

#93

Post by ImprobableTruth »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #60
cassianoleal wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling for the murder of a dead person?

Was he dead then?

Yes? From the article:

>The day after his death, Kelly, 36, tweeted “the only good Brit soldier is a deed one, burn auld fella buuuuurn.”

Very crude, but he was celebrating his death, not calling for it.

Re: Twitter user sentenced to 150 hours of community service in UK

#94

Post by prmoustache »

trashtester wrote: post #41
basisword wrote: post #13

I’m generally in favour of some limits on speech. I don’t think you should be able to tweet racist messages for example. It’s obviously very complicated and something people are going to argue a lot about. BUT this case has made me change my opinion. Things much worse than this are tweeted every day and this is the one that gets prosecuted. It’s blatantly politically motivated (‘national hero’, British soldier etc) a…

The problem with banning things like "racism" is that words change meaning over time. Maybe some time in the future, any reference to "White Privlege" may be considered racist, for instance.

This is the reason justice system has the concept of prescription. You cannot be prosecuted for something that wasn´t deem unlawful in the past and even if there was already a law about it we can't condemn you if we failed to do so within a not distant past. It pretty much cover you in case meaning change over time.

Re: Twitter user sentenced to 150 hours of community service in UK

#95

Post by heurisko »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #92
heurisko wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White working class boys in the UK are amongst the least likely to go to university in the UK, they don't have a privilege for being white. I think terms like white privilege drive resentment and are divisive. "In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race..." Barack Obama. htt…

they don't have a privilege for being white. As a white (and formerly working class) boy from the UK, I can confidently say that nobody has at any point in my life discriminated against me on the basis of my ethnic background. That is the extent of what this expression means – it does not mean that any individual to whom it applied is in a superior position relative to others, but only that they do not suffer from di…

> it does not mean that any individual to whom it applied is in a superior position relative to others, but only that they do not suffer from disadvantage due to one specific thing.

That's not the way it's taught to children. They're encouraged to think of their "privilege" entirely in terms of race, which determines whether they win or lose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I3wJ7pJUjg

> There is a stubborn desire to ignore this distinction

Because the distinction isn't made.

Re: Twitter user sentenced to 150 hours of community service in UK

#97

Post by Fradow »

candiodari wrote: post #21
onion2k wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess ideological conformity is a good thing for stable society? I don't think this is about "ideological conformity". No one is stopping you thinking, or saying, whatever you want at any time. The problem is when you use a platform to broadcast that message to a wider audience, especially one like Twitter that will show your posts to people who don't follow you.

The problem is that that is never, ever, where it stops. There's always people that society suddenly decides are "really important", usually the most dumb-witted, cruel abusers you can come up with. And of course, the rules don't apply to them. Just look at the president of France, if you want to see a particularly bad fuckup. He, and his wife, have confessed, publicly, on TV, repeatedly to having a paedophilic relat…

> He was 15, she was 40 years old at the time. Not only have they not been sued (in France, both would be punished)

That's not quite as clear cut as you put it. Sexual majority is 15 years old in France.

Now, since she was his teacher, it could be argued that it was not a consensual relationship (if there even was an actual act, I don't pretend to know), but that would be something for courts to decide.

In short, this is a terrible example of your point.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majorit%C3%A9_sexuelle_en_Fran...

Re: Twitter user sentenced to 150 hours of community service in UK

#98

Post by gonzo41 »

heurisko wrote: post #82
gonzo41 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

White working class boys in the UK are amongst the least likely to go to university in the UK, they don't have a privilege for being white. I think terms like white privilege drive resentment and are divisive. "In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race..." Barack Obama. htt…

It sucks being poor regardless of race (I grew up poor in Australia, so pretty wealthy by some perspectives), but having to contend with race is an additional burden to those who are not white in predominately white countries because there's another difference for them to overcome.

WRT the white working class boys, They are not being held back by terms like white privilege. They are being held back by the very white house of lords denying them opportunities.

In an American context, how often do you hear about social policies to round up Canadians who overstay work visas in order to deport them?

Re: Twitter user sentenced to 150 hours of community service in UK

#99

Post by Pyramus »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #63
basisword wrote: post #13

I’m generally in favour of some limits on speech. I don’t think you should be able to tweet racist messages for example. It’s obviously very complicated and something people are going to argue a lot about. BUT this case has made me change my opinion. Things much worse than this are tweeted every day and this is the one that gets prosecuted. It’s blatantly politically motivated (‘national hero’, British soldier etc) a…

>>"I don’t think you should be able to tweet racist messages for example. " Why not,and who gets to make the determination? I'm an atheist, and having so many blasphemy and religion protection laws in liberal democracies misused (or rather, used exactly as they are truly intended) so horribly has really taught me what poorly defined restrictions on speech mean in the real world. As for racist speech, I really truly b…

> As for racist speech, I really truly believe that censoring does not ever serve its intended purpose.

What is censoring for you?

I don't see a single Western democracy that is not "censoring" or restricting the rights of individuals to some extent. It's just to a different extent. E.g. the US has speed limits on highways, but Germany hasn't. You must not deny the holocaust in Germany, but you can do so in the US.

The argument that there is no grey area seems flawed to me. Instead, can we, as a society, discuss productively where we draw the line?

Re: Twitter user sentenced to 150 hours of community service in UK

#100

Post by Pyramus »

michaelscott wrote: post #49
jeffalyanak wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like how speed limits necessitate the arrest of everyone who drives.

...over the speed limit, yes. The point of parent's post is that the offensive nature of a statement or speech in general is subjective and can change with whims and the time. A speed limit is objective and quantifiable; if you go over the speed limit stated you get fined, there's no room for interpretation

Speed limits are not objective at all - Germany infamously does not have speed limits on highways.

And yes, speed limit laws, do change over time.

And no, you can't be punished for having broken a speed limit in the past, that is not in effect today.

Parent's comparison seems rather apt.

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