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Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

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191–200 of 223 posts

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am currently working on a CLI that will allow you to query .csv, .xls and .tsv files and SQL tables via plain English.

Interesting concept - care to explain in more detail?

I too would like to subscribe to this newsletter.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#192
post #135
post #126

I think Eirik Bakke deserves a shoutout on this thread. He's the creator of UltOrg ( https://www.ultorg.com/ ) and has literally spent his career pursuing this question with a level of focus unlike anything I've ever seen. UltOrg is roughly "spreadsheets re-built atop the RDBMS datamodel". The UI supports nested joins, aggregations, filtering, for both display and data update. The result is essentially a general purp…

This looks really neat and powerful. I think spreadsheets have a lot of deficiencies and that many users abuse them, but that's because there is no widely known alternative/extension. For example, I wanted to create a list of data sources in a particular area. It doesn't warrant any coding, this is just a simple document, but doing it in a spreadsheet is too clunky: I want tags, paragraphs of text, and, crucially, a…

try org-mode

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#193
post #192
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks really neat and powerful. I think spreadsheets have a lot of deficiencies and that many users abuse them, but that's because there is no widely known alternative/extension. For example, I wanted to create a list of data sources in a particular area. It doesn't warrant any coding, this is just a simple document, but doing it in a spreadsheet is too clunky: I want tags, paragraphs of text, and, crucially, a…

try org-mode

Here's the org-mode tables introduction:

https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/tables.html

After that, google for filtering, sorting, etc. It's all possible.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airtable really ought to be killing Excel, but the SaaS model combined with a stupidly low artificial row count limit (over 50000 rows is listed as "contact us for pricing") means that it will never achieve penetration into weird and wonderful use cases like Excel has. Like, my default is to throw a dataset I'm hacking on into an SQL database so I can actually query the thing. But no I don't want to upload my 400MB l…

I am currently working on a CLI that will allow you to query .csv, .xls and .tsv files and SQL tables via plain English.

What do you mean by plain English? Will it support colloquialisms? Regional dialects? How is a Left Join expressed in English, distinct from a Full Join? Will it accept synonyms and contractions? Or will the Query Language require Structure?

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#195
post #85

Trillions of decisions have been made off a tool that has poor error handling and data consistency issues. Blame is not entirely on either the user or the software, but the tool is too trusted without validation. [Study that was at the core for Europe's austerity and European debt crisis contained excel errors when fixed showed the inverse of original hypothesis.]( https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/19/opinion/krugman-t…

Airtable really ought to be killing Excel, but the SaaS model combined with a stupidly low artificial row count limit (over 50000 rows is listed as "contact us for pricing") means that it will never achieve penetration into weird and wonderful use cases like Excel has. Like, my default is to throw a dataset I'm hacking on into an SQL database so I can actually query the thing. But no I don't want to upload my 400MB l…

apparently grist can handle 100,000 rows, and that's just a soft limit so you might be able to do more.

being able to have an excel grid and a chart view on the same page would probably suit your use case as well. being able to use python for the formulas is a nice touch too.

the free hosted version has almost all features available as far as i remember. there's also a docker version that's easy to get up and running and doesn't have any limitations

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#196

I scanned the comments to see if anyone had mentioned Causal[1] yet. I’d describe it as a spreadsheet specifically for modelling. I used it to build a cost model for the startup I work at, consisting of around 100 different inputs, and it was rather enjoyable. I was able to (reasonably easily) insert the different AWS costs for (for example) SD vs. HD video transcoding and see how that affected the costs of encoding…

Yeah, Causal is fantastic for financial modeling or even probability weighted forecasts. It does feel like the future.

It just needs more… AirTable style functionality to be all on one like Excel.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#197
post #135
post #126

I think Eirik Bakke deserves a shoutout on this thread. He's the creator of UltOrg ( https://www.ultorg.com/ ) and has literally spent his career pursuing this question with a level of focus unlike anything I've ever seen. UltOrg is roughly "spreadsheets re-built atop the RDBMS datamodel". The UI supports nested joins, aggregations, filtering, for both display and data update. The result is essentially a general purp…

This looks really neat and powerful. I think spreadsheets have a lot of deficiencies and that many users abuse them, but that's because there is no widely known alternative/extension. For example, I wanted to create a list of data sources in a particular area. It doesn't warrant any coding, this is just a simple document, but doing it in a spreadsheet is too clunky: I want tags, paragraphs of text, and, crucially, a…

Using Org mode [1] and for example EasyOrg [2] does pretty much that. You can use tags, links etc and filter and sort on text and tags. In the case of EasyOrg you would use the Agenda's List view and for the paragraphs to show up in the Agenda they have to start with TODO (or a custom state, i.e. '* DATA My link number one'). The document preview does not support filtering.

[1] https://orgmode.org [2] https://easyorgmode.com

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#198

No. There's a reason why Excel has withstood the test of time. It will be the #1 productivity tool for decades to come

I mean no insult, but I'm pretty sure that was the thinking with "the horse" as a means of transport.

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#199
One idea is to use columns instead of cells. Each column has a definition in terms of other columns which might also be defined in terms of other columns. If you change value(s) in some source column then these changes will propagate through the graph of these column definitions. Some fragments of this general idea were implemented in different systems, for example, Power BI or Airtable. The main difficulty in any formalization is how to deal with columns in multiple tables.

This approach was formalized in the concept-oriented model of data which relies on two basic elements: mathematical functions and mathematical sets. In contrast, most traditional data models rely on only sets. Functions are implemented as columns. This model gets rid of joins and groupby by making data processing simpler and more intuitive.

This approach was implemented in the Prosto data processing toolkit: https://github.com/asavinov/prosto

Re: Excel 2.0 – Is there a better visual data model than a grid of cells?

#200
post #8

I liked the way Apple did it in their Numbers clone of Excel - you can have multiple grids on a single page. It makes it a lot easier to have related data on the same page without fiddling with the row/column sizes to suite multiple types of data.

Why would you claim Numbers is a clone of Excel? Spreadsheets existed before Excel, including spreadsheets with dominant market share: VisiCalc on Apple II, MultiPlan on CP/M, and Lotus 1-2-3 on MS-DOS. Excel was essentially a rewrite of MultiPlan specifically for Macintosh.
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