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Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

arstechnica.com

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Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#171

Post by 27182818284 »

lucasjung wrote: post #156
ArbitraryLimits wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UAV itself will have a computer running a commercial RTOS. The computer on the ground which the operator sits and and uses to interact with the UAV is almost certainly a Windows box. And as someone else said, the military's way of securing Windows machines like those has traditionally been not to hook them up to a network in the first place, instead of installing anti-virus software. That actually worked really w…

USB flash drives are banned DOD-wide. Most DOD computers are setup up to not even mount them when they are plugged in.

I was told recently by someone working with DoD equipment that although USB flash drives were banned, certain USB hard drives were still OK. He was telling me this because it was so hilarious and alarming.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#172

Post by lucasjung »

dattaway wrote: post #161
lucasjung wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB flash drives are banned DOD-wide. Most DOD computers are setup up to not even mount them when they are plugged in.

Unfortunately, most cell phones charge from a USB port.

You can actually still do that: drawing 5V doesn't require the phone to mount as a drive.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#173

Post by lucasjung »

27182818284 wrote: post #171
lucasjung wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB flash drives are banned DOD-wide. Most DOD computers are setup up to not even mount them when they are plugged in.

I was told recently by someone working with DoD equipment that although USB flash drives were banned, certain USB hard drives were still OK. He was telling me this because it was so hilarious and alarming.

The hard drive has to be scanned by an administrator before you're allowed to use it (not sure what this process entails). It also has to be encrypted, and won't mount unless it is encrypted with the proper DOD-approved software.

As far as I know, SSDs are not allowed, only magnetic drives.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#174

Post by lucasjung »

iopuy wrote: post #133
bronson wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. http://gcn.com/articles/1998/07/13/software-glitches-leave-n... And, have you seen all the computers necessary to carry out a drone operation? I guarantee you not all of them are running an RTOS. Probably not even all of them onboard the drone.

The article is from 1998. Please forgive me if I don't see it as framing the situation of today.

Military acquisitions take a long time. To give one example, I know for a fact that there are airplanes flying right now that use DEC Alphas to control their weapons systems. Those planes first came into use in the early 2000's. An older version of that plane is still in use, and will be for several more years; you don't even want to know what it's using.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#175

Post by javert »

pcottle wrote: post #151
javert wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No modern UAV has hardware capable of running an entire Windows installation. I highly, highly doubt that you're right about this. If you happen to be right, you won't be for long. It might be that nobody wants to run Windows , but there is clear motivation, as well as hardware and software technology, to have a full-scale OS on an advanced UAV.

The google car is an exception where there is a lot of sophisticated software. UAV's like Boeing's and even the ones you buy online (with the open source software) are running on boards, not full-scale PC's with the ability to play a DVD. UAVs are very complicated in terms of technology and engineering, but the hardware is simple because it's basically just running control loops on some board.

You're wrong to associate "UAV" with small "remote-controlled" airplanes. There are much more sophisticated things out there, and also in the works.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#176

Post by pavpanchekha »

dmoney wrote: post #144
pavpanchekha wrote: post #32

Perhaps the fact that our computer systems are now of military importance and the fact that a security hole can mean deaths and international relations disasters will finally lead to people taking a good look at verified computing. Where a virus doesn't mean outsmarting some forgetful C programmer but is mathematically impossible. Or not, it was just a bug, we'll fix it this one time and pretend it will never happen…

How can a virus be mathematically impossible? And what if there's a bug in your math?

To answer your two questions, it is possible to mathematically prove, using certain tools that are admittedly rather academic (my argument is that we should consider using them more), that certain behaviors are impossible in a program. For example, a buffer overflow, or some form of data leak. This has been done, though admittedly not to programs anywhere near as complex as, say, the Windows kernel.

And, if there's a bug in your math, you will, of course, have some bug. Garbage in, garbage out. But! You can write your mathematical proof in such a way that the computer checks it for you (for example, static typing is a weak form of this). So all you need to have faith in is that program. Now we've exchanged faith in all programs to faith in one program. Which is an advance. But then we can formulate a proof that that program is correct in its own proof language. We hand-check this proof once, and then from then on the program can check later iterations of itself.

That's the dream, anyways. Some of the machinery to do this is available today, but some not.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#178

Post by wisty »

lucasjung wrote: post #172
dattaway wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, most cell phones charge from a USB port.

You can actually still do that: drawing 5V doesn't require the phone to mount as a drive.

So, what happens when a virus on the phone tells it to pose as a CD drive, and install a keylogger?

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#179

Post by adrianN »

Bud wrote: post #74
JonnieCache wrote: post #11

Like hugh says, this doesn't add up at all. “We keep wiping it off, and it keeps coming back,” says a source familiar with the network infection, one of three that told Danger Room about the virus. “We think it’s benign. But we just don’t know.” C'mon. You're the military. "It just keeps coming back?" So you decide to do a press release about it? Please. I wouldn't have whined like that when I was de-malwareing neigh…

I don't know how I can be any more clear here: If they are not smart enough to keep malware off of what should be the most secure systems around, perhaps they shouldn't be building the fricking FLYING REMOTE-CONTROL DEATH MACHINES for a while, until they can figure out the basics. Capisce, guys?

It really shouldn't be so hard to put a TPM in autonomous killer robots and only let digitally signed code run. That should make it much harder for hackers.

Re: Computer virus hits US Predator and Reaper drone fleet

#180

Post by lucasjung »

wisty wrote: post #178
lucasjung wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can actually still do that: drawing 5V doesn't require the phone to mount as a drive.

So, what happens when a virus on the phone tells it to pose as a CD drive, and install a keylogger?

I'm pretty sure it won't mount that, either. The only external storage they'll mount are external hard drives that have been encrypted with their approved software.
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