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Impulse Space is betting on a future where launch is cheap

arstechnica.com

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Re: Impulse Space is betting on a future where launch is cheap

#21

Post by Loughla »

Invictus0 wrote: post #19
rbanffy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fairly quickly. The delta-v maps show the minimum needed to get from one place to the other. In order to get from one place to another more quickly, you’ll need larger delta-v’s at the ends of the trip. Even though the rest of the solar system is within reach, we don’t want to send humans to Pluto and back on 20-year missions.

you mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger darling. I can definitely imagine a mission to pluto and back.

A 20 year mission to Pluto would be unsuccessful without cryogenic or otherwise science-magical-sleep system. I cannot imagine a single set of humans who could spend 20 years together, without any way to leave the small space of a ship, and not absolutely lose their minds.

That long of a trip means we just end up sending absolute lunatics and/or small pieces of chopped up lunatics after the inevitable murders.

Re: Impulse Space is betting on a future where launch is cheap

#22

Post by im3w1l »

Retric wrote: post #20
le-mark wrote: post #2

So long as humanity is limited to throwing high velocity gas oot the back of rockets to get around the solar system, we’ll be limited by access to volatile material. Spacex is betting on CH4 and oxygen, nuclear rocket designs (NERVA) used hydrogen, although they could use pretty much anything. Earth is in a peculiar position such that the delta V of getting to orbit will also get you to anywhere else in the solar sys…

NERVA or other Nuclear thermal rockets are actually fairly low ISP compared to ION drives. A solar panel + inert gas gets you anywhere in the solar system. The real issue is what’s the point? The economics of asteroid mining gets much worse if you consider bringing vast quantities of say gold back to earth would tank the value of gold.

I have been thinking about this and what I really hope we do is build a fully automated colony in space. Making it livable for humans is a huge pain in the ass, but if we restrict the scope to just sustaining robots then it becomes easier.

Energy is easy: Solar panels. There is also repairs which might be trickier. Need to mine for materials and refine them into spare parts.

Once you have a self-sustaining colony you could use it to assemble useful stuff. Luxury goods for terrestrial consumption. Or you could use it to build a stage-2 colony that is suitable for humans. Or maybe rockets and stuff to keep expanding into space.

Re: Impulse Space is betting on a future where launch is cheap

#24

Post by jcims »

im3w1l wrote: post #22
Retric wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NERVA or other Nuclear thermal rockets are actually fairly low ISP compared to ION drives. A solar panel + inert gas gets you anywhere in the solar system. The real issue is what’s the point? The economics of asteroid mining gets much worse if you consider bringing vast quantities of say gold back to earth would tank the value of gold.

I have been thinking about this and what I really hope we do is build a fully automated colony in space. Making it livable for humans is a huge pain in the ass, but if we restrict the scope to just sustaining robots then it becomes easier. Energy is easy: Solar panels. There is also repairs which might be trickier. Need to mine for materials and refine them into spare parts. Once you have a self-sustaining colony you…

Pretty interesting Lex Fridman podcast episode in this area: https://youtu.be/KW8Vjs84Fxg

It’s light on technical details but it’s encouraging to hear that there is progress being made in this direction.

Re: Impulse Space is betting on a future where launch is cheap

#25

Post by gondo »

bmitc wrote: post #18

Does anyone have some thoughts on where all the funding and market is coming from in this new private space industry? I've seen a ton of these companies popping up, and I'm not sure I quite understand where all the demand and money is coming from outside of government contracts. While space is always cool and "sexy", I've been wondering if there's some analog model that could work for ocean tech, particularly tech th…

Private internet satellites is going to be a big market. Russian space program collapsing for quite some time and only being escalated recently. SpaceX paving a way for profitable private space business.

Re: Impulse Space is betting on a future where launch is cheap

#26

Post by tempnow987 »

simonh wrote: post #5

This is one reason I'm quite bullish about some of the 'old space' companies, like Boeing, Northrop and Lokheed. They may be losing out in launch systems, but they stand to make a fortune building a lot of the cargo Starship is going to launch. Someone's going to need to build all these satellites, probes, space stations, etc. The same applies to ESA, do they actually care about building rockets, or is the interestin…

Yeah, I'm also curious about this approach by folks like ESA. Even NASA with their SLS monstrosity.

Imagine what you could do with an extra $4B per year in support for missions - it would be amazing. There is no way SpaceX can scale for that. You can't build a telescope targeting starship (maybe using starship has the frame and keep starship up there)? Or tons of other interesting ideas (spacesuits of a number of styles etc).

SpaceX is a bit unique, Elon wants to get to space and is crazy about Mars. But LOTS of other stuff to do, and he doesn't seem to hung up about what he is launching (see OneWeb and all the other space com businesses he's launching).

Re: Impulse Space is betting on a future where launch is cheap

#27

Post by lquist »

Mueller talks about “ pharmaceuticals, or materials, or semiconductors” production shifting to space. Can anyone expand on this please? What aspects of these industries is better done in space? How large (in revenue) are those portions of those industries? Thanks!

Re: Impulse Space is betting on a future where launch is cheap

#28

Post by BurningFrog »

Retric wrote: post #20
le-mark wrote: post #2

So long as humanity is limited to throwing high velocity gas oot the back of rockets to get around the solar system, we’ll be limited by access to volatile material. Spacex is betting on CH4 and oxygen, nuclear rocket designs (NERVA) used hydrogen, although they could use pretty much anything. Earth is in a peculiar position such that the delta V of getting to orbit will also get you to anywhere else in the solar sys…

NERVA or other Nuclear thermal rockets are actually fairly low ISP compared to ION drives. A solar panel + inert gas gets you anywhere in the solar system. The real issue is what’s the point? The economics of asteroid mining gets much worse if you consider bringing vast quantities of say gold back to earth would tank the value of gold.

Gold is a special case, but tanking the price of expensive metals is exactly the point of asteroid mining.

If prices for nickel, iron, copper, platinum, etc were cut by 99%, it would raise human living standards ENORMOUSLY.

Re: Impulse Space is betting on a future where launch is cheap

#29

Post by Retric »

BurningFrog wrote: post #28
Retric wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NERVA or other Nuclear thermal rockets are actually fairly low ISP compared to ION drives. A solar panel + inert gas gets you anywhere in the solar system. The real issue is what’s the point? The economics of asteroid mining gets much worse if you consider bringing vast quantities of say gold back to earth would tank the value of gold.

Gold is a special case, but tanking the price of expensive metals is exactly the point of asteroid mining. If prices for nickel, iron, copper, platinum, etc were cut by 99%, it would raise human living standards ENORMOUSLY.

We can significantly expand mining of common elements like copper and iron, the demand simply isn’t there.

Over 5% of earths crust is iron, aluminum is over 8%, we really aren’t running out of them.

Amos stuff is more rare, but for scale roughly 700 million metric tons of copper has been mined out of 2800 million tons of copper discovered in economically viable concentrations. With perhaps another 3500 million metric tons in undiscovered but economically viable mines.

Re: Impulse Space is betting on a future where launch is cheap

#30

Post by whalee »

lquist wrote: post #27

Mueller talks about “ pharmaceuticals, or materials, or semiconductors” production shifting to space. Can anyone expand on this please? What aspects of these industries is better done in space? How large (in revenue) are those portions of those industries? Thanks!

Building organs in microgravity, a potentially crucial ingredient to make the process work. From what I've seen this is the most realistic near future application.

"When you're 3D-printing a tissue culture on the ground, there's a tendency for them to collapse in the presence of gravity," he says. "The tissues require some sort of [temporary, organic] scaffold to hold everything in place, especially with cavities like the chambers of a heart. But you don't have those effects in a micro-gravity environment, which is why these experiments have been so valuable."[0]

Although I do think, taking human progression in the limit, moving to self sustaining manufacturing in space, using local raw materials (asteroids or otherwise), and dropping products back down to earth will be the natural progression. Space offers what earth does not -- infinite resources, infinite space(heh), infinite energy. Delete scarcity and what remains is purely a logistics problem.

Whether it'll be 50, 100 or 500 years, who knows?

[0] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210601-how-transplant-o...

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