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Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

theswaddle.com

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Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You _can_ get a fairly accurate sense of how people are feeling or what they are thinking, and some people are better at this than others. Call it intuition, body language, or whatever else, it doesn't inherently make it arrogance. Being mindful of how you could be incorrect in what, at the end of the day, are assumptions that require confirmation, is important; without this is where the true arrogance lies.

I think assuming how people feel and what people are thinking without asking them, giving them agency, is nearly the very pinnacle of arrogance. further, this can be some of the most damaging behavior you participate in on a daily basis, both to you and to the person you do it to. I cannot overstate how toxic to your relationships and to yourself this behavior is. You need to let people express themselves, and listen…

I find your reaction to this pretty toxic, tbh. Stop trying to assert your dogma and actually practice what you preach.

No one is saying that they are making assumptions for others or not allowing them to express themselves. But if you deny that you are prejudiced, you're going to end up imposing your own will on others because you continue to suffer from your predisposition without being cognizant of how that affects them.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is you need to let people express themselves, rather than assuming their emotional state from body language or other subtle cues. People often decide how to feel, and we need to let them.

How you react to something is just as important as how you say you feel after the fact. People do judge and form opinions on your behavior as well as your thoughts. Wishing it was otherwise is the real arrogance in this scenario. I'm all for letting people figure out how they feel about things, but sometimes we don't have the luxury of time and we need to interpret in the moment. This will happen no matter what as lo…

You're arguing "is", I'm arguing "ought". They're unrelated.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you notice, much philosophy - generally defined, including religion - is vague. Much great art is vague. It may turn out that, unlike technical manuals, there is no value in spelling out everything. Either the reader engages or not and if they do, they don't need it spelled out - they create it in their own neural pathways, in their own mind, which is far more valuable than reading it. And if they don't, it doesn'…

I'd argue that you're conflating philosophy and religion, and that unlike what you're suggesting by that conflation, much of philosophy isn't vague - it's careful and well thought out. Here's a random passage from Decarte's Meditations: I have always considered that the two questions respecting God and the Soul were the chief of those that ought to be demonstrated by philosophical rather than theological argument. Fo…

You are claiming that the writing in modern Western philosopy is known for clarity? Also, those aren't Decartes' words, which were in Latin (or French?).

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#154
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This struck a cord. Can I get you to elaborate?

Here is what I understand. I have no expertise, I have long studied and learned to apply these ideas, after trying the willpower approach for much of my life. Most of all, I encourage you to read what experts say; it's fundamental psychology (even if I denied it for a long time). I have plenty of flaws but I am blessed with willpower, at a level that drives others crazy; I am always pushing the furthest, always the l…

I just wanted to thank you for putting all this out there. I don't have a substantive reply, and I didn't want to (keep) delay writing back until I had finished thinking about what you wrote.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#155
post #84
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decision making when? In what conditions? Do those conditions ever change?

When making decisions on moral grounds, and regarding altruistic actions. For example, seeing a picture of a single child suffer tends to induce relatively more empathy than seeing a picture of a whole family or town suffer. (That’s why you predominantly see the former in charity ads.) With rational compassion, it would be rather the converse. Having empathy with a group one is close to (in thought/space/time) also t…

I would be interested why do they suffer, what's the context, am I able to help?

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#156
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is what I understand. I have no expertise, I have long studied and learned to apply these ideas, after trying the willpower approach for much of my life. Most of all, I encourage you to read what experts say; it's fundamental psychology (even if I denied it for a long time). I have plenty of flaws but I am blessed with willpower, at a level that drives others crazy; I am always pushing the furthest, always the l…

I just wanted to thank you for putting all this out there. I don't have a substantive reply, and I didn't want to (keep) delay writing back until I had finished thinking about what you wrote.

You are very welcome. I can just keep the tab open and check back once in awhile (unless my browser crashes!) and if you reply, and if I see it, I'll respond.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think assuming how people feel and what people are thinking without asking them, giving them agency, is nearly the very pinnacle of arrogance. further, this can be some of the most damaging behavior you participate in on a daily basis, both to you and to the person you do it to. I cannot overstate how toxic to your relationships and to yourself this behavior is. You need to let people express themselves, and listen…

I find your reaction to this pretty toxic, tbh. Stop trying to assert your dogma and actually practice what you preach. No one is saying that they are making assumptions for others or not allowing them to express themselves. But if you deny that you are prejudiced, you're going to end up imposing your own will on others because you continue to suffer from your predisposition without being cognizant of how that affect…

I am talking about the people who are making assumptions for others and therefore not allowing them to express themselves.

If you want to talk about groups of people doing things other than this, why did you create two new accounts to reply to me?

I believe you're one of the people I'm talking about, and I don't think you're taking it very well to find out some folks think of you as arrogant.

I'm not surprised you find that, "pretty toxic, tbh", but I stand by what I said. You're not the first "empathetic" person I've talked to who gets unreasonably upset at the notion that their perceived good trait is actually a negative trait.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#158
I believe in jobs before charity. there are things that need to be altruistically funded due to market failures, but not most things. the root causes of scarcity need to be addressed, and feel-good ad hoc donations tend, in my opinion, not to accomplish that. in the micro, I will never fault someone for doing something self-less, but things need to be fixed at the policy level, or let the market work where it can.

Re: Altruism under stress: cortisol negatively predicts charitable giving

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your response. It's very common for empathetic people to feel great suffering. It's not "common sense" knowledge to learn how to maintain deep compassion while preventing the pain from affecting your own being. In fact, most highly empathetic people, like OP, feel burdened by this emotional state because the untrained person experiences compassion as double suffering (the suffering of the object of…

The understanding I've gained as an Orthodox Christian is that God works in us, using the suffering to help us repent. He prepares us for resurrection unto life. This justifies the suffering, gives it enough meaning to keep going. When we have this conviction of compassion and do not run away from it, but shoulder it as a responsibility and work through it to find the truth and serve within it to the best of our abil…

Thank you for sharing your perspective! I'm not Christian, but I'm a person of faith. It's interesting to see how the different faiths approach suffering.
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