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Wow! That was quick given their resources! It wasn’t many weeks ago I saw their browser do 50’ish on the test.
And here's a Quote Tweet chain as I was posting progress updates from 99/100 all the way back to 50/100: https://twitter.com/awesomekling/status/1507135024461721605
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zig has many of the same footguns as C++ and C; it just has better developer ergonomics. Use after free, double free, invalid stack RW, uninitialized data, race conditions, etc. They're all possible to be found in Zig programs, because the language doesn't provide assurances against them.
(Have never written Zig) Does the design of the language make them less (or more) likely to occur, though? e.g. all these things are possible in Forth too, but the design of the language definitely seems to conspire to make them less likely than C in my experience (I probably have about as many hours in each now? Roughly 1k, maybe 1.5k?). (I suspect that this is the case in Forth because the stack gives a "linear-lik…
If I wanted to work on Serenity OS, how long does it take to compile?
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Linux's rough edges form a fractal.
A fractal with loops
If I wanted to work on Serenity OS, how long does it take to compile?
And then incremental rebuilds (when I go and pull the latest changes once in a while to see what's new) take anywhere between 1-10 minutes, depending on what changed exactly. YMMV.
For an entire operating system, it's pretty cool already! I wonder if C++20 modules will take it down some more, it's been mentioned a few times as something to investigate.
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Which is both very impressive given everything that is being produced, but also a bit scary and sad in 2022. There is ample evidence that even very excellent developers and teams can't avoid the footguns of c++ and that leads issues down the line. If we just look at the browser, they seem to make much faster progress than Servo, but there is no doubt it will have security flaws.
Not sure why you are downvoted, you are totally correct about the footguns that C++ has and why the same issues found in the other browsers will still apply here. > If we just look at the browser, they seem to make much faster progress than Servo, but there is no doubt it will have security flaws. Servo was supposed to be the promise of better security in a new browser thanks to Rust. Unfortunately in reality that wa…
AIUI, Servo started as a project to prove out Rust that would also be a research testing ground for working on prototypes to improve aspects of Firefox. I don't think Servo was ever intended to be a browser on its own. Although others may have imputed that goal on to the project.
(I wasn't involved in Servo, but was in Rust, so was pretty adjacent to it.)
I've watched a few of this guy's videos, and it's deeply impressive. He reminds me of the grizzled old guys from the 1980's that actually know the deep internals of an OS. They didn't just take it in school, they lived and breathed it. He's the guy that made the 'myth' of a 10x coder a reality for me. I get this is his passion project, but part of me wonders what he could accomplish working on the rough edges of linu…
> I get this is his passion project, but part of me wonders what he could accomplish working on the rough edges of linux. I've watched/listened to more than a few of his videos. Something that he has expressed on more than one occasion is an appreciation for the kind of deep vertical integration that he saw at Apple because they control the entire stack. He's going for something in that direction in Serenity and it,…
Andreas: Well, I don’t know that I ever had a real direction with it. But in the beginning, I remember feeling kind of frustrated with finding myself using Linux again and thinking it’s nice to be back on Linux. Everything is snappy. And the developer experience is really great, but I sure do miss having the source code for everything.
Adam: This is a fascinating distinction to draw.
Linux is open source. Everyone has access to the code. But if you listen to episode 70 with Joey Hess talking about Debian, making changes can be a bureaucratic process. And that’s just for one distribution. There are hundreds of Linux distributions. Even if it’s a one line change, it could take years to get that upstreamed and spread into various Linux distributions. If you listen to episode 67 about Zig, that was one of Andrew’s motivations behind creating Zig.
But meanwhile, Andreas has another strategy at Apple. Everything was in one place, and everything was built internally.
Andreas: And when you’re in that environment, it’s extremely powerful.
I found out about SerenityOS and Andreas since Andy Kelley retweets him all the time. Is Zig somehow a part of SerenityOS (or its future plans), or is it simply Andy respecting / signal boosting another systems hacker?
Someone mentioned BoksOS. That one is explicitly using Zig and made a conference demo [1] too.
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What's a rough minimum for a page with some text on it? Are we talking about 64MiB like Chromium, WebKit, or Gecko, or more like 16KiB, 256KiB, 4MiB, or 1 GiB? I think of memory usage as being more about correctness than performance, though I know that isn't how most people see it. Trying to run a 512MiB process on a 64MiB computer, or a 512GiB process on a 64GiB computer, is just never going to run at a usable speed…
If I open this HN discussion page in the browser, it currently uses 44MB of private memory. We can definitely shave a couple of megabytes off of it with some effort, but supporting the contemporary web on a 4MB budget seems infeasible.
Even Lynx takes 14MB of RSS (not all private!) and 25MB of VSZ to load this discussion page, and Links is 9MB/13MB. (Neither of them produces a usable layout, but that's not because they're using a lot of memory.) The page source is 179K, links's "formatted output" of the page is 59 kB, and Firefox tells me it has 2908 HTML elements in it, so it's probably possible to render it in under a meg. I doubt anyone ever will.