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The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

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Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#471

Post by asdff »

musicale wrote: post #10
ravedave5 wrote: post #5

Same experience as me, went in nobody was there. Spent day doing the exact same thing as at home with a different view and extra 50 minutes of driving. Did not go in again.

It sounds like the commute is a big part of it. My perfect commute would probably be a 10 minute bicycle ride, or maybe a short train ride.

Thats what I like about wfh. I can simulate a commute in my neighborhood. Do I want to bike to work today? OK, I can decide how far work is, then I come home after that and start working. Do I want a 5 min walk with a mug of coffee? I can do that too. Do I need to work in a walk to the grocery store to get stuff for lunch? Boom, convenient errand and morning commute while working from home.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#472

Post by asdff »

redox99 wrote: post #25
musicale wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the commute is a big part of it. My perfect commute would probably be a 10 minute bicycle ride, or maybe a short train ride.

Something like that is very hard in practice unless you live extremely close, like walking distance. Even in a densely populated area such as Manhattan, getting from midtown to lower manhattan (which is quite close btw) is 20 minutes either biking or taking the subway.

This is what I love about working from home. I live somewhere with frankly a decent amount of transit as far as american cities go; I can take a subway or bus lines to work from my place, but it still takes a ton of time (like 45 mins if the stars align with the schedule, over an hour if they don't).

Meanwhile, with working from home, I've been simulating a commute. I walk for 5-30 mins maybe with a mug of coffee, or go biking in the morning, then come back and start working. It helps give some separation between home and work. Then I do the same thing at the end of the day to close it out and help clear the head.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#473

Post by asdff »

coding_unit_1 wrote: post #204
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that, too. The problem is, those who are left enjoy catching up. That is fine in general but I noticed I'm much less productive in the office than at home because I need to listen to small talk whenever I go to the kitchen or just pass my coworkers. I'm not an introvert and I enjoy talking to people in general, but when I'm at work, I have a certain amount of things to do and I really want to complete them all…

People see this as a waste, but that is how team relationships are formed. Jeff from accounts may be eating up time today talking about Batman, but 3 months down the line you'll be ringing him up saying "hey buddy, I need a favour on those TPS reports" and he'll oblige because you've formed a bond. It's human nature. I found WFH was great when we all left the office en masse and had already got a close-knit team. Cha…

We solved it by every now and then burning a friday and having potlucks at the beach or some park. Not mandatory but if its convenient people show up, and people actually do make the trek from far off sometimes just to have a cookout and a little fun. Its all social too, work isn't mentioned at all in conversations.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#474

Post by asdff »

andrewingram wrote: post #121
idontwantthis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you go for a bike ride in the morning instead?

Some people (such as myself) rely on the somewhat enforced structure of going into the office to "attach" other life things onto, like exercise and going out. Without that structure, i'm miserable.

Seems like a larger personal issue with discipline that you could work out on your own vs enforcing this on your coworkers for your own convenience

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#475

Post by asdff »

vmception wrote: post #443

Are there any companies doing it right? I see all the articles about people quitting, and all the articles like this one about ridiculous patches to work life that aren't working, and I have to wonder, is there someone doing it right that is also paying well?

github?

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#476

Post by vmception »

asdff wrote: post #475
vmception wrote: post #443

Are there any companies doing it right? I see all the articles about people quitting, and all the articles like this one about ridiculous patches to work life that aren't working, and I have to wonder, is there someone doing it right that is also paying well?

github?

what are they doing?

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#477

Post by bearjaws »

tetromino_ wrote: post #455
bearjaws wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was appalled to find our office lease was $20,000 a month. We could hire two FTEs for the price of that office, and we are not even in a premium space. To your point about efficiency: I don't believe our office produces 2 FTE's worth of additional productivity across the whole org. Leadership thinks it does, but assuming we acquire decent talent, that would be a net 10% increase in engineering. I don't believe the…

In the end, someone has to pay for office space: either you as the employer, or your employees in the form of higher rent/mortgage for a larger home with dedicated office areas. (And for employees with families based in urban areas, such a larger home may be entirely unaffordable.)

That non-affordability is created by the scarcity of housing, because many spaces are entirely dedicates to jobs that (now) don't need them.

Think about a Manhattan with 40% more housing, what would that do to affordability?

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#478

Post by jjav »

osigurdson wrote: post #258

I don't think there is anything else more illogical in modern society than waking up in building A, hopping in a car and fighting traffic for an hour to get to building B just to sit in front of a computer for 8 hours (perhaps with a few minimally productive meetings here and there), then commute back to building A 8 hours later. Building B sits empty for 16 hours a day while Building A sits empty for 10 with both be…

Good comment. While it seems obvious, the whole environmental, infrastructure cost and land (mis)use aspects are not in the conversation often enough. Usually it's only work productivity and preferences.

The key observation is really that the societal costs of supporting a commute culture are so enormous that for it to make any sense, the productivity of being in-office would have to be many multiples higher than remote.

We can argue whether remote or office is slightly more productive this way or that way, and there are plenty of studies showing both directions so it's probably a wash, depending on team.

But no study ever suggests that in-office could possibly be so immensely more productive than remote that it could justify the costs to society of doing it.

Of course, it'd be great if there is some research attempting to quantify this more precisely (including road construction & maintenance, inefficient land use, pollution, time lost, health impact from the stress, and on and on). Any links?

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#479

Post by afiori »

incomingpain wrote: post #390
afiori wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were to replace all inbound/outbound subway connection of Manhattan with bridges and car traffic you would need 49 bridges the size of Manhattan bridge as a replacement. Cars are very useful to go wherever you want, but are literally the worst for volume. Similarly to how trucks are necessary to move stuff around but they cannot replace train freight/air planes/container ships.

>If you were to replace all inbound/outbound subway connection of Manhattan with bridges and car traffic you would need 49 bridges the size of Manhattan bridge as a replacement. dont take me as attacking nyc and/or their subway. I'm certain at some grand time in the future all cities have a subway with rapid transport.

I was replying to

> The answer may be robotaxis. I am very optimistic that this could solve a large degree of the issues.

What I was trying to say is that cars (autonomous or not) are to mass transportation what copper wire is to the internet: better to keep the bulk of it out of it.

Also car infrastructure is extremely expensive, both in and of itself and as a collateral, parking lot requirements have a huge maintenance and spatial cost.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#480

Post by jjav »

tetromino_ wrote: post #455
bearjaws wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was appalled to find our office lease was $20,000 a month. We could hire two FTEs for the price of that office, and we are not even in a premium space. To your point about efficiency: I don't believe our office produces 2 FTE's worth of additional productivity across the whole org. Leadership thinks it does, but assuming we acquire decent talent, that would be a net 10% increase in engineering. I don't believe the…

In the end, someone has to pay for office space: either you as the employer, or your employees in the form of higher rent/mortgage for a larger home with dedicated office areas. (And for employees with families based in urban areas, such a larger home may be entirely unaffordable.)

> In the end, someone has to pay for office space

True, of course. But geographically distributing the need for space reduces the very concentration of demand in the office park areas.

The larger home (with an office) may be entirely unaffordable in the city center where HQ was, but with remote you can move elsewhere where it can be cheaper than an apartment in that city.

Or you could rent a small office away from the crowds where it's cheaper. This is what I've been doing since pandemic start. Sure, I wish the employers would pay for it but it's still so much better that it's worth it. On fuel alone I save enough every month to pay the rent a couple times over. And my commute is ~5 minutes on a bike instead of 60-90 minutes sitting in traffic.

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